muzzys gonna muzzy

Not the pinnacle of quality journalism... but a good watch

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly4qk0FvEC0]Violent Racist Leb/Arab Gangs of Melbourne - YouTube[/ame]
 


guerilla said:
Why would you be pleased that a country run by criminals has banned people from wearing whatever they want?
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As societies we are where we are, so mentioning 'run by criminals' is irrelevant to a discussion on this subject - you could say that about any issue we discuss on here. It doesn't add anything.

Please visit some of the muslim dominated cities in Europe, especially in France and the UK. There are muslims who wear the burkah as a way of saying 'fuck you' to British culture. This is not hearsay and feel free to research that specific point. And of course they have the right to free speech (unlike in many muslim nations) but this is not the point: if they don't like UK culture and want to bring it down then they know where the nearest airport is.

There are two other issues: one is security. You may know that there are muslims trying to blow-up innocent people and a full covering makes it difficult to know who or what is in your bank, medical surgery, school, train carriage etc. I know, I know ... you have a hundred counter-comments about Government control, false flags, lies and manipulation etc and I would agree with most of them, but come and hang-out in say Bradford or Birmingham or Luton in England and get a feel for the thing.

The second is the offensive aspect of misogyny and women's rights. Everything about FORCING a woman to wear covering goes against our secular culture. You might argue that the French government is FORCING a woman to NOT wear these garments. But again, I ask you to visit the large urban muslim areas and see how the context feels. It might open your eyes.
 
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Then again, some Aussie's aren't so great either...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp6J6PF47CM]Caught on camera: racist Australians abuse girl & smash bus window - YouTube[/ame]
 
wezcountry said:
Actually I am writing a book about why I think Christianity sucks and this is, in the main, a cathartic exercise, but also a way for me to wrestle with the issues on paper, a way to gather the evidence, to sift through it. It has been a 3 year project and it has been very difficult at times. I prefer to keep it to myself because that way the creative energy isn't dissipated.

Judaism ... see above ... I have come to think of Christianity as a Jewish sect and thus my tortured scribblings began with Yahweh and the Torah. Judaism itself leans heavily on Babylonian myth (e.g. the flood legend in the Epic of Gilgamesh is a prototype of the Noah's Ark myth) and Hinduism (see below).

Buddhism: my girlfriend has started attending a Buddhism group along with my neighbour and it's interesting to discuss this with her.

Hinduism ... not sure on that one ... it's quite a large subject and although I would like to study it I just don't have the time. I am aware of the influence of Hinduism on Old Testament myth though (e.g. Hadama and Heva).

I looked into Taoism but found it to be a bit like trying to hold water in my hand.

Islam ... another Jewish sect. I started reading the Koran but to be honest it was even harder going than the Old Testament (which I have read in whole 5 times). I read some commentaries. I carefully read a book which explains the Islamic faith to westerners. I read speeches of some of their teachers and well, what can I say but by their fruits you shall know them.

I just finished reading (again) Simon Schama's book on English history 'The Edge of the World' and see several similarities between medieval England and modern day Islamic countries, I mean, of course, with respect to religion and its relation to culture and control and mental poverty and repression.

I enjoy posting images, videos and writing things like 'Islam fucking sucks' on this forum because it does in the main suck and it's a safe form of catharsis. I do also want people to become agitated by Islamic protest. I feel it is a threat to my way of life and I reserve the right to say 'fuck off' in its direction (and yes, I have directly confronted protesting muslims). Btw, I am not addressing here the injustice felt by some of these countries about being raped by the USA, so please don't think I have a problem with the everyday Muslim - I do have a burning loathing for political Islam though and if the average muslim is not prepared to speak out against that then he is a coward and a piece of shit, imo.

I think of a country like Iran, for example, so much potential and yet utterly ruined by Islam. Speaking of the every day muslim, it's when they want to impose their beliefs on the culture I am part of (secular humanist) that I feel the desire to say 'fuck you' in my small (and probably pointless) way.

Anyway, back to work.
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If you post more stuff like this, I suspect you're a lot more likely to advance your cause here. I'd be genuinely interested to hear the comparisons between medieval England and modern day Islamist countries. I suspect others would too.

From my personal experience of Islam, there are huge problems with things like attitudes to women's rights, even amongst a lot of otherwise 'moderate' Muslims.

On the other hand, you can keep reposting EDL videos and exciting the mouth-breathers on here. Who am I to tell you how to spend your time?
 
guerilla said:
And yet no threads about Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism etc.

Were you going to make those next?
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Probably when a Jew, Christian, Buddhist or Hindu strap themselves with explosives and blew up a bunch of innocent people in the name of their God.
 
amateursurgeon said:
From my personal experience of Islam, there are huge problems with things like attitudes to women's rights, even amongst a lot of otherwise 'moderate' Muslims.
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I think you mean there are women's rights issues with people who practice Islam, not Islam itself.

This is a very important distinction. If you're going to judge an ideology by billions of its followers actions, then that is basically saying the ideology encompasses anything and everything behaviorally. That's what makes it easy like in this discussion, to cherry pick facts.

"Look that guy did that and he is a muslim, therefor Islam = that"

Which is of course nonsense. George Bush and Bill Clinton murdered millions of people, and no one would say with a straight face that was the philosophy of Christ.

Islam as a religion, gave women rights of property, divorce, etc when northern europe was still burning women as witches and keep them as chattel slavery.

The cultural elevation of women in the west is only about 100 years old.

And if you compared a 16 year old Pakistani girl to a 16 year old American girl, I am not sure you could make the case that elevation has been very high.

I think a better way of approaching the entire topic, is that there are people who are culturally, and ethnically isolated, or who are (in the case of Europe) exploiting political opportunity (no welfare state = no Muslims moving to Europe) acting in a manner which alarms and bothers others.

If you want a culturally consistent environment, you want a private property society, similar to the anarchism I typically discuss.

If you want a multi-ethnic, left democratic state run society, then you will have to accept the overrun of other groups and races because the goal of the state is not to preserve culture, but to destroy it, the better that the state may rule.

America has similar "issues" with Hispanics.
 
greenleaves said:
But ask yourself this: IF you know that poor people all over are backward, and you KNOW that an educated upper class blackman is just as civilized as the upper class white man, than why can't you figure the same out with Christian vs Muslim? What forces WANT you to have the perspective you have? In who's interest is it?
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Very few people are capable of this level of introspection.

Pretty much the root of 90% of my arguments are with people who can't/won't logically derive secondary effects and implications from facts.

It's a form of bias which probably had some evolutionary value (because it is so prevalent), but is very dangerous in an information society.

tl;dr Some people can't think logically, for whatever reason.
 
guerilla said:
I think you mean there are women's rights issues with people who practice Islam, not Islam itself.

This is a very important distinction. If you're going to judge an ideology by billions of its followers actions, then that is basically saying the ideology encompasses anything and everything behaviorally. That's what makes it easy like in this discussion, to cherry pick facts.

"Look that guy did that and he is a muslim, therefor Islam = that"

Which is of course nonsense. George Bush and Bill Clinton murdered millions of people, and no one would say with a straight face that was the philosophy of Christ.

Islam as a religion, gave women rights of property, divorce, etc when northern europe was still burning women as witches and keep them as chattel slavery.

The cultural elevation of women in the west is only about 100 years old.

And if you compared a 16 year old Pakistani girl to a 16 year old American girl, I am not sure you could make the case that elevation has been very high.

I think a better way of approaching the entire topic, is that there are people who are culturally, and ethnically isolated, or who are (in the case of Europe) exploiting political opportunity (no welfare state = no Muslims moving to Europe) acting in a manner which alarms and bothers others.

If you want a culturally consistent environment, you want a private property society, similar to the anarchism I typically discuss.

If you want a multi-ethnic, left democratic state run society, then you will have to accept the overrun of other groups and races because the goal of the state is not to preserve culture, but to destroy it, the better that the state may rule.

America has similar "issues" with Hispanics.
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Yes, of course - the term 'Islam' encompasses a very a broad array of things and people, just like 'Christianity' or 'China'. Words of that breadth are useful for knowing which section of the library to look in, but not much else.
 
guerilla said:
I think you mean there are women's rights issues with people who practice Islam, not Islam itself.

This is a very important distinction. If you're going to judge an ideology by billions of its followers actions, then that is basically saying the ideology encompasses anything and everything behaviorally. That's what makes it easy like in this discussion, to cherry pick facts.

"Look that guy did that and he is a muslim, therefor Islam = that"

Which is of course nonsense. George Bush and Bill Clinton murdered millions of people, and no one would say with a straight face that was the philosophy of Christ.

Islam as a religion, gave women rights of property, divorce, etc when northern europe was still burning women as witches and keep them as chattel slavery.

The cultural elevation of women in the west is only about 100 years old.

And if you compared a 16 year old Pakistani girl to a 16 year old American girl, I am not sure you could make the case that elevation has been very high.

I think a better way of approaching the entire topic, is that there are people who are culturally, and ethnically isolated, or who are (in the case of Europe) exploiting political opportunity (no welfare state = no Muslims moving to Europe) acting in a manner which alarms and bothers others.

If you want a culturally consistent environment, you want a private property society, similar to the anarchism I typically discuss.

If you want a multi-ethnic, left democratic state run society, then you will have to accept the overrun of other groups and races because the goal of the state is not to preserve culture, but to destroy it, the better that the state may rule.

America has similar "issues" with Hispanics.
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Hmmm .. the issue of women is more complex than it might appear at least in medieval England. For example, the man was out front because he was usually physically stronger, but the woman generally ruled the home. England had female rulers, for example Budica, who fought long and hard against the Roman invaders and destroyed an entire Roman city, Colchester (burning alive the inhabitants) or Elizabeth I, one of the greatest rulers in English history.

Although I can't back-up my next point with facts (have a deadline!) the way you describe the benefits Islam for women is very misleading and the ultimate in cherry-picking. Those rights you describe (property rights, divorce etc) are also found in the Bible and pre-date Islam. The societal context though was utterly stark and brutal for women. We see signs of this in modern day Pakistan and Afghanistan, where women have facial feature cut-off for breaking the law, where a woman who is raped can be imprisoned for committing adultery, where a woman may not CHOSE the male company she keeps, and where women should not drive a car, receive an education, on and on it goes: utterly indefensible misogyny and a horrible stain on humanity.

But specifically talking about Islam, where do you want to go next? To the Quoran? The Hadiths? I wouldn't if I were you because as far as I can tell those books contain a lot of dark violent shit. I know for sure the Bible does and the Quoran is cut from the same tree, but I have read some of these stuff myself.

Please whatever your beliefs try not to justify nor plead for Islam. It was born in war and bloodshed, it was carried forward on the back of deception and ethnic cleansing, it is full of fairy stories. It is obscene.
 
Tony, you're doing exactly what I described.

You're using the behavior of particular individuals to enforce a bias against a larger group.

It's intellectually dishonest.

wezcountry said:
Please whatever your beliefs try not to justify nor plead for Islam. It was born in war and bloodshed, it was carried forward on the back of deception and ethnic cleansing, it is full of fairy stories. It is obscene.
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This is your bias exposed. There are no facts, nothing which will sway your already formed opinion.

It's a shame, but you can't even see that you've completely closed yourself off from being able to see this any other way. In that sense, you have now become the fanatic.

I was born and raised a Christian. I am a deist. I've never had a problem with Jews. But I did live with Pakistani and Afghani Muslims for 3 years, and I'd like to think I learned a lot about them, their culture, their families etc. I suspect, you know very few Pakistani Muslims, and so choose to define them by the actions of a handful of people as represented by a media whose job is to control you with fear, rather than inform your intellect.

Comments like this are lazy, collectivist, and frankly, they make you seem like a very angry and misdirected person.

And yeah, I don't expect you to see it any other way.
 
conjamuk said:
A glimspe of what our world will be in 30 years.
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How can you people (not necessarily just you conjamuk), but everyone - not see how this isn't racially motivated? First off, fuck that Muslim religion. The people who bumped into that aryan reporter was a jap, and when you pause the riots what race are those pieces of shit??? Fucking arabs, I think I saw like one white dude which obviously watched to much television and merely got brainwashed.... Who were all the cops trying to restore order??? Whites....

Again, 3rd world people will create 3rd world countries.

I'm so surprised Jon hasn't given me the ban hammer yet. But he's a coo joo for not doing so. LoL :--)

Now go on with how stupid I am... how ignorant and confused I am. How multiculturalism will work... Bring out the members who are inferior to our people and start yappin about my stupidity. Idiots.

$20 bux says guerilla replies.
 
guerilla said:
Tony, you're doing exactly what I described.

You're using the behavior of particular individuals to enforce a bias against a larger group.

It's intellectually dishonest.


This is your bias exposed. There are no facts, nothing which will sway your already formed opinion.

It's a shame, but you can't even see that you've completely closed yourself off from being able to see this any other way. In that sense, you have now become the fanatic.

I was born and raised a Christian. I am a deist. I've never had a problem with Jews. But I did live with Pakistani and Afghani Muslims for 3 years, and I'd like to think I learned a lot about them, their culture, their families etc. I suspect, you know very few Pakistani Muslims, and so choose to define them by the actions of a handful of people as represented by a media whose job is to control you with fear, rather than inform your intellect.

Comments like this are lazy, collectivist, and frankly, they make you seem like a very angry and misdirected person.

And yeah, I don't expect you to see it any other way.
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But there's nothing wrong with having an opinion! Especially if it's an opinion that has come from thought. And in any case, I am not talking about "particular individuals". I addressed your specific point about women because you were being mischievous there. I then stepped back to ask you about the religion itself. You can't have it both ways: either these people are doing this awful stuff because they feel justified, even commanded, by their religion, or they are lying. Which is it?

You are no doubt aware of the OT story of the man caught gathering firewood who was subsequently executed by stoning for breaking the sabbath. This sort of story undermines the morality of the religion - it makes it wrong!!

A lot of what the Quoran teaches is wrong! Morally wrong.

I have not had the opportunity to spend time with muslims in their culture, I would like too actually, however I lived and experienced the muslim in modern Britain and it is a mess.

And please do not call me a fanatic. It's impolite. I am in a process and I think a lot about these issues, I am not frozen, or swivel-eyed just because I have reached a conclusion. Call my opinions fanatical if you want, but don't descend to personal attacks. It's not nice ;)
 
amateursurgeon said:
Yes, of course - the term 'Islam' encompasses a very a broad array of things and people, just like 'Christianity' or 'China'. Words of that breadth are useful for knowing which section of the library to look in, but not much else.
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Well, that is because muslims always self-identify as muslim foremost, ethnicity second and nationality third.

The battle cry in Syria, Lybia, Indonesia, Philippines, Pakistan is always Allahu Akhbar.

Of course, this kind of obvious real life data, is easily ignored if you enjoy being the moral high horse kind of guy.
 
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