NEEDED: Reasons to not use an SEO firm

infoslob

infoslob

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Jul 13, 2011
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Here's my situation. This spring I pitched my services to a smallish (12-15 people) financial firm, one that has been gradually realizing the mistake of not budgeting a cent to marketing.

I want to market their online tool and do additional work woefully lacking there - basic SEO, SEM, blogs/social media/mobile (they are nowhere); to generally raise their online profile to match a solid presence on conventional media (TV/some blogs/print, etc.)

They loved everything I had to say and offer, but stressed they didn't yet have that kind of money in the budget. (They have dough, but costs come out of pocket so they're being cheap - at said point they still don't get basic marketing concepts. They are traders/money managers by trade.)

But they were willing to commit to an SEO/SEM firm.

I want to show them that they're not only wasting money, but worse, wasting time. They are under the impression they can go from 0-60 through some PPC and cost-effective SEO.

My contact within the company forwarded the SEO's pitch and their first weak-assed monthly report.

In the first month about $1000 of direct PPC spend netted 8 new subscribers for a product that costs less than $50. About $3000 was also spent on "SEO" and a startup fee, and standard fee for ad spend.

All of the SEO company's bullshit is standard, possibly less slick than most.

After 6+ weeks as a customer, the company website still has the title tags "Home" on Home page, "Our Services" on Our Services, etc. (How can an SEO firm defend that, that they're waiting for the optimized keywords to use? This is just stock market stuff here, not molecular science.)

I want to cut these guys to ribbons to my potential employers, as I'm still in close touch with. I am familiar with many of the delaying tactics that an SEO firm will employ to buy time and keep monthly fees coming in, but I am sure I'm missing a few.

Any recommendations as to how I can proceed here?
 


You said they lost $600 the first week then didn't do any work and you're asking how to tell someone that you can do better?

Really?

Do you need someone to shake if you use the bathroom too?
 
Just educate them, while keeping sure you maintain expectations. Tell them what the company is doing wrong, but not how to fix it.
 
Congratulations, you've just managed to get yourself friend-zoned.

They loved everything I had to say and offer, but stressed they didn't yet have that kind of money in the budget.
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No, they didn't. They didn't think you were credible. They just told you how nice it was to make you feel good. They were blowing smoke at you. If they really loved it, you wouldn't be making this post.

ok, some questions to see if this is rescue-able:

who is the ultimate decision maker?
who is your contact?
who is the SEO company's champion?

(job roles, I mean)

Who else was involved in the decision to bring the SEO company on?
What are you offering as an alternative?

EDIT: at the moment, I suspect that none of the advice other posters have made here will be any help, because from your OP, it sounds like you shot your load on the gatekeeper, whilst the SEO company's sales guy was playing golf with the decision maker. Please tell me I'm wrong.
 
danke said:
You said they lost $600 the first week then didn't do any work and you're asking how to tell someone that you can do better?

Really?

Do you need someone to shake if you use the bathroom too?
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1) I never really have been in this spot before and 2) if someone throws me a meatball over the plate I want to put it over the fence, not just slap a single.

How best to capitalize, that's my questioning, not if I can.

Part of my pitch, admittedly self-serving, was warning against "shady SEO" companies.

I also have a friend on the inside, though not the decision maker.
 
That's precisely why when I approach new clients, I approach them under a company name, not under myself.

They told you they didn't have the money yet they said they're willing to commit to an SEO firm? Ouch, that gotta hurt. Like amateursurgeon said, they didn't take you seriously. Next time approach your clients as "CEO of company-name" instead of solo SEO expert or some shit like that... and bring Branded Case Studies + Proposal with you. A Proposal that clearly states where they are now and what they can expect from your strategy.
 
infoslob said:
f someone throws me a meatball over the plate I want to put it over the fence
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Sell benefits, not services.

Nobody buys a drill because they want a drill, they buy a drill because they want a hole.

I would give some thought to the benefits of a substantially lower cost per acquisition (more new clients for the same marketing spend), and how best to frame that idea in a very nuts and bolts, real world context.
 
If you have cash in the bank, and you think the niche is worth going after, then make your own set of sites/properties/forums/whatever, and talk to them AND their competitors. Find the best deal for qualified leads and advertising.

Maybe you're on to a good niche here. Why build links to someone else's property?

Qualified traffic is power. Go get some.
 
amateursurgeon said:
Congratulations, you've just managed to get yourself friend-zoned.



No, they didn't. They didn't think you were credible. They just told you how nice it was to make you feel good. They were blowing smoke at you. If they really loved it, you wouldn't be making this post.
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Excellent point.

amateursurgeon said:
EDIT: at the moment, I suspect that none of the advice other posters have made here will be any help, because from your OP, it sounds like you shot your load on the gatekeeper, whilst the SEO company's sales guy was playing golf with the decision maker. Please tell me I'm wrong.
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I was told that the SEO firm was a 'friend of a friend' kind of thing, with the friend being an investor.

That investor is pretty much a butthead. He knows more than I about a multitude of things, no doubt, but it's like he read one article or grasped on aspect of SEO and he's ready to talk like an expert.

He's no expert because a host of clown competitors are eating these guys' lunches.

Final decision maker, who stressed to me over and over "We don't have the $ right now" (I suppose that's "not gonna waste that kind of money on you right now") wants to meet with me again. He has zero connection to SEO firm.
 
Whenever people with businesses try to hire me for SEO I usually talk them out of it by explaining to them that they are better equipped to do it themselves than anyone else they could hire. Sure, certain technical/on-page stuff needs to be sorted out, but that can be done in a few hours. Beyond that, what they need is really good links, and chances are they already have business relationships with plenty of other companies with related websites who won't mind throwing them a link. 50 of those is worth more than 50k directory submissions/bookmarks/blog comments, etc.
 
IceToEskimos said:
This can be hard to overcome, and it might not be worth your time to try.
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I don't know if I was clear about it, but these guys came back to me only 1-2 months after they went with the SEO firm. There's dissatisfaction, so I want to come in and slam the window shut and give a firm but friendly "I told you so".

I believe the priority list for an SEO firm is as follows:

1) The sell.
2) Customer retention.
3) Lunch.
3) Actual service.

Maybe I'm up against #2 and they are pumping me for feedback, rather then the work. I don't know. Again, I've never been in this situation.

I was also asked what I'd be looking for to get in there and do work. (I said see my previous pitch - we can negotiate from there because I won't negotiate against myself)

All this being said, I would like very much to associate with these people. It's a direction I'd like to go.
 
kingofsp said:
Whenever people with businesses try to hire me for SEO I usually talk them out of it by explaining to them that they are better equipped to do it themselves than anyone else they could hire. Sure, certain technical/on-page stuff needs to be sorted out, but that can be done in a few hours. Beyond that, what they need is really good links, and chances are they already have business relationships with plenty of other companies with related websites who won't mind throwing them a link. 50 of those is worth more than 50k directory submissions/bookmarks/blog comments, etc.
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I'm of this mindset. However, there is more work here than just rudimentary SEO; these guys don't know what SEO is or isn't - and are thusly ripe for the taking. They rested easy thinking someone is taking care of shit they don't know about, which apparently means $150 per conversion.

I'm trying to tell them their efforts has to come in-house, that they don't have the budget to pay an outsider enough to care.
 
IceToEskimos said:
Hammering on cost per acquisition should get you pretty far, especially if you are dealing with a bunch of b-school charmboys, which it sounds like you are.
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ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI ROI

IceToEskimos said:
Sell benefits, not services.
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In this case, sell ROI.

kingofsp said:
Whenever people with businesses try to hire me for SEO I usually talk them out of it by explaining to them that they are better equipped to do it themselves than anyone else they could hire. Sure, certain technical/on-page stuff needs to be sorted out, but that can be done in a few hours. Beyond that, what they need is really good links, and chances are they already have business relationships with plenty of other companies with related websites who won't mind throwing them a link. 50 of those is worth more than 50k directory submissions/bookmarks/blog comments, etc.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

infoslob said:
I don't know if I was clear about it, but these guys came back to me only 1-2 months after they went with the SEO firm. There's dissatisfaction, so I want to come in and slam the window shut and give a firm but friendly "I told you so".
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Lose the infantile mentality. You don't want to say "I told you so" unless you're emotionally retarded.

You want to close the sale and help these guys grow their business. If you don't want to do that, but want to stroke yourself off, then GTFO.

infoslob said:
I'm trying to tell them their efforts has to come in-house, that they don't have the budget to pay an outsider enough to care.
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If you can't make money at it, move on. If you can, demonstrate to them, and follow up by executing, how they can make more money with an effective strategy.

Stop screwing around and get serious.
 
Sell results. Give them a template. Pay me this per lead. Make it tiered where your ability to generate more biz = more money for you.

Put them in a position where giving you a chance seems like a must.
 
You're focussing on the wrong end of the problem.

Stop trying to talk to them about SEO or whatever, they don't give a fuck about that. If you're justifying with facts and figures why your solution is better than the other guys, you're just another nerd to them.

What's the pain the CEO has? Why has he suddenly started spending money on this aspect of his business?

And the crucial question: "How long are you prepared to keep spending money with a provider you're not happy with, who isn't producing the results you want, just to keep your investor happy?

It's ok, I totally understand if your investor's good graces are more important than your online marketing. Just tell me "No" and we can part friends, and you can keep on paying these guys, and you won't rock the boat with your investor."

I disagree with those who say drop it these guys, they aren't a big enough account. You desperately need the selling experience, and the fact these guys aren't a huge account makes them ideal to screw up with. Definitely go for the meeting with the DM, and buy and read this beforehand:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Five-Minutes-With-David-Mattson/dp/097860783X/ref=sr_1_1"]Amazon.com: Five Minutes With VITO (9780978607838): David Mattson, Anthony Parinello: Books[/ame] Five Minutes with VITO
 
amateursurgeon said:
You're focussing on the wrong end of the problem.

Stop trying to talk to them about SEO or whatever, they don't give a fuck about that. If you're justifying with facts and figures why your solution is better than the other guys, you're just another nerd to them.

What's the pain the CEO has? Why has he suddenly started spending money on this aspect of his business?
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I was just about to say something very similar... :)


Pitching and retaining clients has surprisingly little to do with your price or expertise. It's hard to be sure without knowing more, but my guess is that you didn't get the client because you didn't sell them what they wanted to be sold. Clearly, price wasn't the issue if they decided to pay someone else more than you were asking.

You were pushing the value angle - good price, better results than "the other guys", etc. When people don't understand what they're buying, though, lower prices can seem suspect, and taking pre-emptive strikes at competitors for delivering "low quality" service can make you look petty or unprofessional. People also have a tendency to get irritated if you imply that they're not capable of properly evaluating service providers.

The thing about clients is that almost all of them have some kind of unspoken agenda. Sometimes, a company that has ignored something for a long time (or done something the cheap way) wants to dive in with a company they feel is ultra-professional. They don't want you to tell them they might make a bad decision with someone else - they want to be comforted about the fact that they're in good hands with you. They also tend to overpay, even when they claim the budget is tight. Nobody is as objective as we'd like to think.

I have one client who's hyper-focused on a specific competitor. I could go on and on about ROI and the "best" strategy, but they've stayed extremely loyal to me over the years because I frame everything to subtly reinforce the idea that whatever I'm about to charge them for will be better than what that competitor is doing. When I don't do that, it becomes very clear in their tone/expression that I'm not winning them over.

Another client has a bizarre attachment to always coming up for one specific keyword. It doesn't convert especially well, but it concerns him, so I moved things around to make sure that his precious keyword doesn't lose a single impression if the budget gets maxed out for other keywords. At other companies, it's a matter of making a specific person feel more competent or look better in front of a boss.

I even have one guy who seems to think I'm some kind of eccentric genius, and he seems happiest when I'm replying slowly to emails, charging him a fortune, and letting him live vicariously through stories about how I spend my free time (he's a 100+ hours/week Wall Street type). In our first conversation, he told me he had heard that the smartest marketing consultants don't work for companies because they can't pay them enough. So...I just reaffirmed his belief with the way I treated him :) He's constantly referring people to me and he tells them stuff like "if she likes you, she'll reply back within a week or so" or "you just have to send her money and let her do her thing". He's convinced that if he goes with a "real company", he'll be getting a lower quality of work.

You still have to be competent and sound professional, but numbers alone won't sell it if someone else is doing a better job of addressing their less obvious needs. Also - shiny charts and graphs add credibility with almost everyone, even if they're virtually meaningless to anyone who knows what they're talking about. Maybe you needed more of those :)
 
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Like other people have said point out the other guys failed miserably. Explain to them where they failed and tell them you know how to fix it. They say don't have the money right now and that probably means there won't be anything you can do to convince them other wise (I'm not saying don't try, but don't get your hopes up).

People generally feel better about paying for something when they know what to expect once the thing is bought. You can see if they'd be up for a trial period. Where you do pro bono work (they'd obviously pay for the ppc stuff and what not). Work out a deal where if you produce X results or hit Y goal then you get hired on full time, part time, contract, or wtf ever you're looking for.

If after your next meeting things don't go well make sure to leave them a card with all of your contact information and tell them to call you if they have any more issues (notice how I said more and not any). with the current provider.


guerilla said:
Lose the infantile mentality. You don't want to say "I told you so" unless you're emotionally retarded.
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I think he meant it as "helping their business grow and succeeding where the other guys failed". If he didn't then I fully agree with you. It's a really shitty attitude to have and if he doesn't drop it he won't get far.
 
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