No to Republicans and No to Democrates, now what?

dmnEPC

dmnEPC

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Dec 23, 2010
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In today's political climate it leaves very little choice. When you know that both the dem's and the republicans are screwing over the country, what do you do?

How do you fight for your liberty? With so much corruption in politics what can the average american citizen do? Without going crazy like some nut. Or fleeing the country. What can you do when you know both sides are evil? Vote in a new guy? Knowing he will screw you his first day in office.

Libertarian? Nobody listens to them
Anarchist? We know what the .gov will do to you.

What choice is left? How does an average american make a difference? Or do we just give up? Let them have their way with our "freedoms" and "liberty"? Or just continue to let them criminalize more and more people?

/rant
 


turbolapp said:
If you continue to dismiss Libertarians then really what are you ranting about? It obviously doesn't matter which poison you pick.
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I don't think HE's dismissing libertarians, only suggesting that most other people do. Which is true. Libertarians are pro-guns, pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-welfare, and anti-war. It's really hard to succeed as a political party in today's America when those are your stances.

Libertarianism is a slow play but I'm hoping things continue to grow and we can start to see real change in 20-50 years.
 
dmnEPC said:
In today's political climate it leaves very little choice. When you know that both the dem's and the republicans are screwing over the country, what do you do?

How do you fight for your liberty? With so much corruption in politics what can the average american citizen do? Without going crazy like some nut. Or fleeing the country. What can you do when you know both sides are evil? Vote in a new guy? Knowing he will screw you his first day in office.

Libertarian? Nobody listens to them
Anarchist? We know what the .gov will do to you.

What choice is left? How does an average american make a difference? Or do we just give up? Let them have their way with our "freedoms" and "liberty"? Or just continue to let them criminalize more and more people?

/rant
Click to expand...

Make more money, so you can flee if necessary!
 
turbolapp said:
If you continue to dismiss Libertarians then really what are you ranting about? It obviously doesn't matter which poison you pick.
Click to expand...

Not dismissing them at all. The american people are told they are wack job's. They refuse to give them credit. They make up lies

The corrupt media did everything they could do to discredit RP during this last election. The media kept him off the ballot. I was left with a shitty choice. The country was left with a shitty choice. A patsy piece of trash that was nominated because he couldn't win. Or to vote for the black messiah.

This past election was the most difficult experience I have ever had at the ballot box. I honestly did not know what to do. If I write in RP I know its a wasted vote that actually helps Obama. If I vote for Romney I know I am voting for a guy who is even more corrupt than the current guy. In the end I choose Romney because my vote wouldn't go to Obama.

That experience still makes me sick. The media on both sides pushes whatever agenda they are told. You go out and mingle with the people, they have no clue. The american public is in a coma.
 
dmnEPC said:
In today's political climate it leaves very little choice. When you know that both the dem's and the republicans are screwing over the country, what do you do?
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Well, you didn't mention pitchforks and torches, now did you?


dmnEPC said:
Or fleeing the country.
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WTF you got against going to greener pastures?

There are a few places in the world that you can move to that are exactly like the USA was back in its' golden days, minues several thousand regulations.

To expats living in places like that, libertarians like yourself look like absolute retards for staying put.


dmnEPC said:
What can you do when you know both sides are evil? Vote in a new guy?...
Libertarian? ...
Anarchist? ...
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Them's your options. I suggest you'd better pick one or:

shut-up-and-deal-with-it-15.png
 
Did you see the interview with the Obama phone lady? The majority of America is not that bad but close to it in ignorance. The reason is they are working like slaves most of the day (yes Obama phone lady has a job) and when they get home they are too tired to read newspapers or give a shit about learning about politics/economics. Also, it's not cool to learn in some cultures.

To change America you have to reach those people somehow. The criminal politicians do it with quick fancy one-liners that sound good but mean nothing. They keep things simple for the simple people to gain their vote.

So your only meaningful choices are probably to 1) somehow try to change enough peoples minds to change the system. 2) Cynically work with the criminal system as is 3) grab a few like minded people and try to form a colony somewhere like on the ocean or an island

I go for #2 cause I don't have the natural politician skills and because lifes too short to waste it trying to change people's minds your whole life. I don't care too much about what the worlds like after I'm erased from existence.
 
lukep said:
Well, you didn't mention pitchforks and torches, now did you?



WTF you got against going to greener pastures?

There are a few places in the world that you can move to that are exactly like the USA was back in its' golden days, minues several thousand regulations.

To expats living in places like that, libertarians like yourself look like absolute retards for staying put.
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Not against leaving. For me it would not really be an option. I could never leave my family behind. And I don't know that they would want to pickup and head over sea's. Besides, why should we have to leave? This is our country. I don't know what it would take to get this country back on track. Most of the country really isnt that bad. People like spending money and leave me with a pretty good life. Maybe I just need to stop reading all the political BS that goes on everyday. Just go back to sleep
 
Personally, I think everybody needs to get over the idea that we're going to effect meaningful change through the current electoral process. It's completely co-opted by the oligarchy, corporations and the two party system. Post Citizens United, there isn't even a semblance of democracy.

We are definitely approaching an inflection point of some kind, which will include financial and monetary shit stormery. Where that takes us is anybody's guess. A full on breakdown of the social order would be catastrophic, in my opinion. But, the political system needs to break down to the point it can be restructured into something less fascistic.

Some of the more hard core anarchistic will probably say that we need to burn it all down and start over. While I'm somewhat sympathetic to that argument, I'd prefer not to have to live through the raping, pillaging and cannibalism that would involve. Not to mention, that level of destabilization could easily mean nuclear war and spiraling back into the stone age, or killing the planet entirely.

I think this challenge, like many others, is basically going to require a transcendence in human consciousness, at least among a certain percentage of the population. If we don't get past our warmongering, reduce the population, and learn to live sustainably on the planet, then we're fucked, plain and simple.

And we're all here to live through this pivotal moment in human history. Like, far out and shit.
 
dmnEPC said:
Not against leaving. For me it would not really be an option. I could never leave my family behind. And I don't know that they would want to pickup and head over sea's. Besides, why should we have to leave? This is our country. I don't know what it would take to get this country back on track. Most of the country really isnt that bad. People like spending money and leave me with a pretty good life. Maybe I just need to stop reading all the political BS that goes on everyday. Just go back to sleep
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If you keep thinking of the world as countries, then you also have to accept that this country has a government consisting of people who support those democrats and republicans who end up making the laws you live under.

I understand that you want to live close to your family though.

You always have to choice to disagree with the status quote. Don't vote and treat government like the mafia it is. Withdraw consent wherever possible from the corrupted system and educate as many people as possible of alternatives.

This is all you can do if you don't want to move. Likely you won't see many results from that, but your kids or grand-kids might...
 
We need to flee. They are creating an economic imbalance in society which is creating great opportunity elsewhere. We need to organize and put our resources elsewhere. We can't work within the current system and unless we experience a huge economic disaster there is very little hope for rebuilding our current system with any form of real value. Therefore I think the only real solution is to leave. We need to let them waste their lives and time on stupid bullshit while we go and build a better civilization elsewhere. We need to organize ourselves and do it. The opportunity is great and the timing is now.
 
dmnEPC said:
How does an average american make a difference?
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There are two ways to effect change. The first is to educate others (see "Learn" in my sig if you desire education yourself). Spread ideas. Believe it or not, doing so has an effect. Here is an example...

I was once an outspoken Republican. Then, a good friend introduced me to anarchism. I have since promoted it to others, some of whom now consider the state to be illegitimate.

Disassociate yourself from all political parties. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green, etc. Also, unless there is a good reason to do otherwise when trying to educate others, disassociate yourself from any label used to refer to a political philosophy. In other words, refrain from saying, "I'm an anarchist." Labels invite an oversimplification of ideas. They also invite name-calling from the dimwitted.

Instead, talk to people about liberty. Talk about freedom. Promote the idea that people should do what they want as long as they do not violate the person or property of others. Although most people have a problem with the concept of anarchy, the idea of personal freedom is natural to them. It is intuitive. So, begin there. Plant the seeds. Live by example.

The second way to effect change?


bloody_but_unbowed_4.5.jpg
 
dmnEPC said:
For me it would not really be an option. I could never leave my family behind. And I don't know that they would want to pickup and head over sea's.
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One day, within your lifetime, a day will surely come when you can't stand to see those people you care for suffer the fate of being american anymore.

I'd suggest that even if you don't physcially get out yet, you go on trips to find & secure a place you would like to live if you were FORCED out. Because one day you will be. And your family would likely come with you out of desperation.


dmnEPC said:
Besides, why should we have to leave? This is our country.
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Says who?

Americans desperately need to learn that there is a HUGE difference between "the people" and "their elected representatives." -Who don't represent them at all. Quite the contrary.

Politicians & bankers, nothing more than an evil parasites sucking your country dry, own america. You do not. This is obvious.

When are you going to allow yourself to see the obvious conclusion to that line of thought?


dmnEPC said:
I don't know what it would take to get this country back on track. Most of the country really isnt that bad.
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The country is awesome. Don't get it and the people there confused with the parasitic invaders controlling it.

Until you are ready to take up arms and pry it away from the parasites, then it just isn't YOUR country at all. You're just a slave there.


dmnEPC said:
Maybe I just need to stop reading all the political BS that goes on everyday. Just go back to sleep
Click to expand...
That's certainly one option. A comforting one... But I hear that it doesn't have a happy ending, and the end is not that far away now.
 
dmnEPC said:
In today's political climate it leaves very little choice. When you know that both the dem's and the republicans are screwing over the country, what do you do?

How do you fight for your liberty? With so much corruption in politics what can the average american citizen do? Without going crazy like some nut. Or fleeing the country. What can you do when you know both sides are evil? Vote in a new guy? Knowing he will screw you his first day in office.

Libertarian? Nobody listens to them
Anarchist? We know what the .gov will do to you.

What choice is left? How does an average american make a difference? Or do we just give up? Let them have their way with our "freedoms" and "liberty"? Or just continue to let them criminalize more and more people?

/rant
Click to expand...

You are just realizing the true nature of power. But that isn't something that has just magically changed.

If you dream about the 'good old days' when the US just got independence, you might think it was a freer time. Unless you were not white. Or you were a woman. Or you didn't own land. If you fit into any of the previous categories, you were pretty much fucked.

Voting matters? That is only a mechanism of those with power to make those without power feel as they have power.

In the face of existing power structures, you have 4 choices:

1- Play their game, gain power, and then don't worry as much about others exerting power over you (since you will have your own power that you can wield)
2- Accept that others will have power over you, unless you have 8-9 digits in value, accept that you don't have power and that others do. Enjoy what you can of life.
3- Fall off the map - nothing is stopping you from living off the grid. Plenty of people do.
4- Become a hero and try to change things - but understand that you will likely suffer terribly and that in all probability your efforts will be misunderstood and useless.


Moving to another country is just doing #1 in a short cut. Because by moving from the center of the empire to the outskirts, you move up the social later and therefore, gain power, and the ability to not have others exert so much power over you.

It is all about power. Regardless of what society you are in, if you have power you have freedom. If you don't have power, you don't have freedom. That goes for the USA, China, Tailand or Kenya. It is based on human nature, not culture.
 
I'm curious, Luke. Aren't you paying double taxes right now since you're still an American citizen? What % are you taxed from US even though you're living in another country?
 
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