Recap of tonight's republican debate

I used to think Perry had this in the bag, now I'm not so sure. He performed pretty poorly and his answers on in state tuition for illegals and the non practicality of a 12 ft high fence across the entire border is going to hurt him badly with primary voters. But at the same time I just don't think Perry supporters are going to flock over to Romney, unless somebody else swoops in I think It's going to be a Romney/Perry ticket via a game of delegate chess at the convention.
 


GeorgeB said:
Can't wait to come back next year and see all the conservatives and Libertarians that are here saying how terrible Perry is start defending him when he wins the primary and is running against Obama :D

bookmarking the thread.
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Just cuz we're libertarians doesn't mean we'd ever come close to talking good about Perry. Dude is grade A asshole.
 
JakeStratham said:
Cheap shot that plays to the crowd, but still made me chuckle...


Governor Johnson: My Neighbor's Dogs Have Created More Jobs Than Obama - YouTube
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A "Gary Johnson / Ron Paul" or "Ron Paul / Gary Johnson" ticket would be a dream come true.

I was thinking yesterday after Christie announced he may run, that even if Cristie and Palin got in, wouldn't that be an advantage to Ron Paul? His supporters are extremely loyal, and aren't very likely to switch sides.

Everyone elses followers don't seem to have that kind of a following, meaning, the more Republicans running for nomination, the more everyone elses votes get spread out, leaving Ron Paul with a bigger lead.

I haven't fully done my research on the other candidates though, so maybe I'm off and just wishful thinking.

I also see an Obama repeat situation, Hillary had the popular vote right? But the Democrats already picked their guy, so the votes didn't matter anymore. If that's the case, it's going to be Romney, no matter how many votes Ron Paul gets.
 
ayzo said:
I used to think Perry had this in the bag, now I'm not so sure.
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It's a reality TV show for our amusement. Don't worry about what the next few episodes bring, Perry will get the nomination. Unless something totally out of this world happens, the voting machines don't make "mistakes", and Ron Paul gets it.

Perry absolutely loves giving big business CEOs magnificent rim jobs, so him getting the nomination shouldn't be a problem.
 
ayzo said:
I used to think Perry had this in the bag, now I'm not so sure. He performed pretty poorly and his answers on in state tuition for illegals and the non practicality of a 12 ft high fence across the entire border is going to hurt him badly with primary voters. But at the same time I just don't think Perry supporters are going to flock over to Romney, unless somebody else swoops in I think It's going to be a Romney/Perry ticket via a game of delegate chess at the convention.
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I wouldn't vote for Perry with your dick tied to a 10 foot pole --- however...

1.) The texas legislator voted for the in state tuition for illegals assuming that they had:
- been a resident for 3 years.
- graduated from a texas High School.
- were pursuing citizenship.

It's revenue neutral, cost no money, and in the long term helps keep crime down. Plus almost every member of the Texas legislators voted for it. It's a state issue and he didn't do anything wrong.

2.) A fence is impractical, and will still require a large amount of man power. Perry keeps saying that we need "boots on the ground" and predator drones. I agree with the boots on the ground - but paying for predator drones to keep out half starved mexicans seems silly. The drug dealers can be dealt with by repealing a couple laws and it's no longer an issue. Perry would rather have another 20 year war on drugs that doesn't work and anarchy on his border instead though. Seems like that should be the bigger issue.

Unlike RP or Johnson, Perry is going to get a chance to explain his perfectly reasonable position over and over and he does it well.
 
Yuckystuff said:
How is it revenue neutral - those students aren't paying for their tuition, so somebody is, right?

Also, the bigger point is that policies like that provide a magnet for illegals to come to the country in the first place. If I'm a father in Mexico and I know I can get my kids an education in Texas I'm going to be a lot more inclined to do whatever it is I have to do to make that dream a reality for my kids. The fact that it would be funded by the American taxpayers would not matter to me at all.
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They are paying tutition... just the in state rate. The end result of this is it's a states right issue. They voted it in - end of discussion. Perry only had the right to veto it, and it passed by overwhelming majority of the states legislators who are the elected voice of the people. The governor isn't a dictator - well unless he passes an executive order on vaccinations :)

I'm not a Perry fan (the opposite) but trying to dig up a controversy where there isn't one is stupid. There is enough ass hat stuff with him to focus on that we don't need to make shit up.
 
Napolean said:
A "Gary Johnson / Ron Paul" or "Ron Paul / Gary Johnson" ticket would be a dream come true.

I was thinking yesterday after Christie announced he may run, that even if Cristie and Palin got in, wouldn't that be an advantage to Ron Paul? His supporters are extremely loyal, and aren't very likely to switch sides.
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Thats a good point, if Palin or/and Christie jumps in, that will dilute the votes, with, more than likely, little impact on Pauls votes.
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
It's a reality TV show for our amusement. Don't worry about what the next few episodes bring, Perry will get the nomination. Unless something totally out of this world happens, the voting machines don't make "mistakes", and Ron Paul gets it.

Perry absolutely loves giving big business CEOs magnificent rim jobs, so him getting the nomination shouldn't be a problem.
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Unfortunately, this could be true. The poll results in FL have been proven to be rigged to the point where Bush just needs to say it. There is a ton of evidence behind it. He did have his brother as governor at the time to aid him though.
 
BlokBlok said:
Unfortunately, this could be true. The poll results in FL have been proven to be rigged to the point where Bush just needs to say it. There is a ton of evidence behind it. He did have his brother as governor at the time to aid him though.
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I didn't so much mean voter fraud, but yeah, that's definitely not off the table, especially if someone like Ron Paul has a chance of winning. What I really meant was the controlling interests choose the nominee via the media, not the American public.

For example, if those with a controlling interest in the election wanted say Gingrich in there, the media would spin it accordingly, and without question Gingrich would be at the top of the polls right now. Do you really believe the American public are choosing the best candidate for the job right now? Of course not. The media is. And who's telling the media what to do? Exactly.

Wouldn't worry about all these debates, polls, issues and shit, because it doesn't really matter. Nominee is already decided, and polls will go up and down because it's reality TV, so they have to keep everyone in suspense and on edge, so their minds are too pre-occupied to sit back and think about anything that actually matters.

heh, they must be pissed that Ron Paul is doing so well though. Can see them in the board room now. "Fucken internet! I thought we were supposed to be controlling all lines of communication!" That reminds me, remember when Georgey tried to create the Internet v2? LOL
 
Kiopa_Matt said:
I didn't so much mean voter fraud, but yeah, that's definitely not off the table, especially if someone like Ron Paul has a chance of winning. What I really meant was the controlling interests choose the nominee via the media, not the American public.

For example, if those with a controlling interest in the election wanted say Gingrich in there, the media would spin it accordingly, and without question Gingrich would be at the top of the polls right now. Do you really believe the American public are choosing the best candidate for the job right now? Of course not. The media is. And who's telling the media what to do? Exactly.

Wouldn't worry about all these debates, polls, issues and shit, because it doesn't really matter. Nominee is already decided, and polls will go up and down because it's reality TV, so they have to keep everyone in suspense and on edge, so their minds are too pre-occupied to sit back and think about anything that actually matters.

heh, they must be pissed that Ron Paul is doing so well though. Can see them in the board room now. "Fucken internet! I thought we were supposed to be controlling all lines of communication!" That reminds me, remember when Georgey tried to create the Internet v2? LOL
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I agree, I started a fuck fox news thread
 
stmadeveloper said:
I wouldn't vote for Perry with your dick tied to a 10 foot pole --- however...

1.) The texas legislator voted for the in state tuition for illegals assuming that they had:
- been a resident for 3 years.
- graduated from a texas High School.
- were pursuing citizenship.

It's revenue neutral, cost no money, and in the long term helps keep crime down. Plus almost every member of the Texas legislators voted for it. It's a state issue and he didn't do anything wrong.

2.) A fence is impractical, and will still require a large amount of man power. Perry keeps saying that we need "boots on the ground" and predator drones. I agree with the boots on the ground - but paying for predator drones to keep out half starved mexicans seems silly. The drug dealers can be dealt with by repealing a couple laws and it's no longer an issue. Perry would rather have another 20 year war on drugs that doesn't work and anarchy on his border instead though. Seems like that should be the bigger issue.

Unlike RP or Johnson, Perry is going to get a chance to explain his perfectly reasonable position over and over and he does it well.
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I live in TX and agree with you on both points, the tuition law in Texas is very reasonable because as you pointed out you have to graduate from a Texas high school, be a resident for 3 years, and pursuing citizenship with actual legal paper work filed. Sure the University of Texas might lose out on some revenue and have to pay their football coach $5 million per year instead of $6 million but its not like the Texas government is out there mailing $100,000 checks to illegals.

As for the fence, lol don't get me started on the whole "lets build a 12 ft high concrete fence across all 2,000 miles of the border". It makes me laugh every time these candidates propose this as a serious solution because if they spent the time to travel down there and talk to the engineers and geologists who have already surveyed the border they would know its not even remotely practical especially in Texas where you have to deal with hills, flood plains, deserts, valleys, mountains, and the extreme curves of the Rio Grande. I really wish one of the moderators would ask these arm chair engineers how they expect to build a structurally sound concrete fence when they have to deal with land like this and how much they think it will cost to build it, maintain it, and repair it when 700 of those miles look like this:

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On those 2 points Perry has taken a reasonable and practical real world position, the problem is that he is running for the republican nomination, those primary voters tend to take on a more activist role than the voters in the general election so they'll have stronger litmus tests and so far he's failing them horribly.
 
Yuckystuff said:
The problem is that the University isn't going to pay the football coach less, they're just going to raise tuition, and you know that. Furthermore, since a large percentage of students get help from the Government to pay their tuition then that means the Government will have to either raise taxes or cut elsewhere to pay for it. I'm pretty sure you guys aren't thinking this through - the money will have to come from somewhere because the University isn't going to just take it in the ass.
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My point *(and damn me for defending him) is that well over a hundred representatives of the people voted for this. I think I heard that only 4 or so abstained or voted no. Hence the people of his state WANTED this.

That means that they will have to deal with the repercussions. It's how government is supposed to work. I'm not sure of Texas's constitution, but my guess is that when 98 percent of the vote is a 'yes', the governor has zero control over the situation.

If he "HAD" tried to veto it against the wishes of the people he is governing that would be worthy of talking about.

Sometimes this political shit makes people stop using their brain. One of the few times that Perry probably represented the people that voted for him instead of just the corporations that own his ass and he's getting shit for it.... lol.

I'm also willing to say that RP or any constitutionalist wouldn't have a beef with this STATE law. By the same token the Arizona law (what the people wanted) doesn't go against federal law, or the U.S. Constitution - it's all just fine and legal. If you LIVE in Texas and didn't like the law you can lobby against it, vote for people against it, etc.... Really don't like it? Move, it's your right. Out of 50 states you can find one that either has no significant illegals, or has laws that make you happy.

But to give the douche bag shit about it, when it's how things are supposed to work is stupid. If you really want to give Perry a hard time focus on the things that make him no flippin different from the majority of the Dems and Republicans. Perry loves the drug war, the nation building wars, and the Fed... no matter what he says now.
 
If Christie gets in, it hurts Romney and Perry, and probably Huntsman too.

The problem is, besides superficially undermining establishment support, the game on the ground in Iowa is going to be the real battle. Who can literally call and remind voters (their recognized voters) to get to the polls, drive them, whatever it takes on the big day.

Paul and Bachmann have absorbed portions of Huckabee's support from last go around. Romney had built a pretty impressive campaign infrastructure 4 years ago and probably still has some of it in place, although the Iowa straw poll was disappointing for him.

Unfortunately for Paul, second place in Iowa isn't good enough. He has to win outright. He's probably got the most active campaign in state, the question really boils down to how they will do when it matters.

I mentioned this before, but if you really want to see RP elected, you MUST register Republican and get everyone you know who supports him to register Republican, and you MUST make it your personal mission to get those people to the polls to vote. That is how he wins. Not money bombs or catchy ads. He must get people who are supporters but unregistered or Democrats to join the GOP and actually cast a ballot.

Dream scenario would be Paul winning Iowa, finishing in a strong second in NH (or maybe even winning), placing second in NV, and Bachmann dropping out and backing him in South Carolina.
 
Ron Paul's first words at the next debate:

"I would just like to take a moment to address an injustice in the allotment of speaking time in the last two debates. I know it's portrayed as "whining" when I speak up up about it, but the facts don't lie. According to the polls, I've won both of the last two debates, yet was given the very least speaking time of all the candidates. My intention is not to "whine", it is to be HEARD. I have a message for the American people..and I think they want to hear it. So whether or not the media chooses to ignore our victories, doesn't matter, that much is out of my control. But tonight I respectfully demand to be given my fair share of the microphone...WITH the approval of the people of course. (gestures to the crowd for support).."..crowd goes wild!

..yea, I'm fucking dreaming, so what..

RP does need to grow a pair real soon. I know he's a morale, cool headed analytical guy, and that's what's great about him, but it's fucking show time. Do or die.
 
I just want to know when they will answer the questions and quit the attacks on each other. I thought you debate your ideas on the questions, not mud sling. Every debate I watch drives me closer to my local gun shop to arm myself for the next big one, lol. I am losing faith in anyone in DC let alone these debates.
 
It doesn't matter how RP does in debates. It only matters how he does in Iowa. No one wins an election on debate performances, they win elections by proving they are electable through getting votes that count and by having activists on the ground doing more than talking.

The debates are kabuki, nothing more.
 
Brian Cashins said:
I just want to know when they will answer the questions and quit the attacks on each other.
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The political system is broken. This is not a race to determine who is the best person for the job.

This is a race to see who manipulate most of the sheep. LOL at voters who think our system works.
 
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