Torture Doesn't Work - Now Get The Fuck Out.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry, that doesn't make it right, or effective. It is neither, regardless of past use. Thats like saying sniffing coke is bad cause at least you're not smoking crack anymore.

If you wanna talk about kids with signs, you should take a look at some of those 8 yr old kids holding up signs at those "tea parties". Seriously, i don't think republicans will cease being the laughing stock of the nation for quite some time.

Furthermore! I am not stating that it is right or wrong. I am stating that our techniques (some of the mildest in the world) are not a secret to either party and never have been. The reason that the dems are all up in arms about it is because their base found out about the techniques.

Pelosi, Reid, none of them had a problem with it after 911. The base found out and the hippies demanded that it be stopped. Now Pelosi and the bunch are all appalled and pissed about something they allready knew and approved of.

You don't hear the British citizens crying over "tourture". The SIS methods puts ours to shame (how do you think they stopped alot of the IRA attacks) It's because they are smart enough to keep their Secret Service methods secret.
 


Furthermore! I am not stating that it is right or wrong. I am stating that our techniques (some of the mildest in the world) are not a secret to either party and never have been. The reason that the dems are all up in arms about it is because their base found out about the techniques.

Pelosi, Reid, none of them had a problem with it after 911. The base found out and the hippies demanded that it be stopped. Now Pelosi and the bunch are all appalled and pissed about something they allready knew and approved of.

You don't hear the British citizens crying over "tourture". The SIS methods puts ours to shame (how do you think they stopped alot of the IRA attacks) It's because they are smart enough to keep their Secret Service methods secret.

It's clearly wrong, unnecessary, and doesn't even accomplish anything. And i would never ever look to the united toothless kingdom as an example of how to do anything properly except be our lackeys.
 
According to who? Nanci Pelosi and the majority of broke, brainwashed and overweight Americans?

I concur.
Or maybe people like me who are currently considered dems, but think Pelosi's a bitch, that the dems are currently is headed in a really bad direction, and are still critical of Obama in many respects.

From someone stuck inbetween 2 shitty parties let me tell you: The republicans are a fucking joke.
Their political muscle/influence is about as scary as a cage match with Stephen Hawking.
 
Did someone request more man boobies?

2911996292_1630a30d32.jpg
 
Furthermore! I am not stating that it is right or wrong. I am stating that our techniques (some of the mildest in the world) are not a secret to either party and never have been. The reason that the dems are all up in arms about it is because their base found out about the techniques.

Pelosi, Reid, none of them had a problem with it after 911. The base found out and the hippies demanded that it be stopped. Now Pelosi and the bunch are all appalled and pissed about something they allready knew and approved of.

You don't hear the British citizens crying over "tourture". The SIS methods puts ours to shame (how do you think they stopped alot of the IRA attacks) It's because they are smart enough to keep their Secret Service methods secret.

Exactly. I.E - Muslims: 'We Do That On First Dates' - HUMAN EVENTS

People love mimicking CNN though don't they Popeye? After all, it's the cool thing to do. Let's all become Socialist Revolutionists and rebel against the greedy capitalists! After all, Kanye West and Beyonce wear Obama T-Shirts so it must be the cool thing to do. CHANGE!!! HAIL KING OBAMA!!!
 
Harvey, give me a list to respond to. It's a bit much to ask my opinion on "everything current". A lot of them are obfuscations which while not fake in that they may occur, are faked with regards to their consequences. Examples, peak oil and deflation.

Mencken was a pimp. You were wise not to dig in against him, one of the greatest journalists of the 20th century.
Done & Done.
Considering the list is decently long, don't feel you have to go into detail on your stance. I've put in my stance after the hyphen.

  • Bin Laden - Dead
  • Al Qaeda, as separate from Bin Laden - a threat, but not as much as made out to be, and used as a cover for any group they can't identify
  • Terrorism, as separate from Al Qaeda specifically - definitely overblown. No worse than it was in the 90s, with the exception of statistical outliers. Merely media saturated nowadays.

    [*]Iraq was about WMD
    - false

    [*]Iraq was about freeing people
    - false

    [*]Iraq was about securing strategic oil reserves
    - plausible

    [*]Iraq was about destablising the mid-East
    - I can't believe US policy is coherent enough to maintain this when government switches regularly.

    [*]Elder Protocols of Zion / Zionism as a conspiracy
    - never found anything to support this, could be biased

    [*]World Monetary Fund / IMF as concentrated effort to fuck things up
    (as oppose to just being idiots that don't pay attention to history) - don't put to malice what stupidity explains neatly

    [*]Climate Change
    - irrefutable proof has been presented that weather patterns are shifting.

    [*]Man Made Global Warming
    (very different from just "well, yeah, weather patterns ARE changing and seas ARE changing currents") - juries out on this. I certainly believe the campaign is good at getting people mobilised to stop polluting shit in general though

    [*]Obama's candidacy was rigged -
    Doubt it. Just good at marketing.

    [*]All international struggles and policy are set by a small group of private individuals working cooperatively
    - Conspiracy becomes to grandiose to be maintained if they do it purposefully. I can believe it happens through personal whim and ignorance of real-world results though.

    [*]All international struggles and policy are set by a small group of private corporations
    - 10' pole

    [*]All international struggles and policy are set by China because it controls 30% of the world's capital
    - 10' pole

    [*]Current flu epidemic is to control population, and prevent them from thinking about economic crisis
    - Doubtful. Media beatup to talk about something even scarier seems more plausible.

    [*]Economic crisis was specifically manufactured to allow one world currency
    - unlikely

    [*]Economic crisis was manufactured to ensure US became a socialist democracy
    - false

    [*]Economic crisis happened because people running banks make decisions based on Magic 8balls, and certainly aren't worth they're 8-9 figure salaries
    - 100% beleive
 
Bin Laden - Was a wealthy Saudi whose family does a lot of business with the US government, specifically reconstruction in Iraq and Kuwait.

Al Qaeda, as separate from Bin Laden - Possibly true

Terrorism, as separate from Al Qaeda specifically - They don't have exclusivity when it comes to terrorism.

Iraq was about WMD - Of course not.

Iraq was about freeing people - You ever free anyone by blowing them up and smashing all of their infrastructure, then confiscating their greatest natural resource? Free people don't live in cages.

Iraq was about securing strategic oil reserves - Partially.

Iraq was about destablising the mid-East - No.

Elder Protocols of Zion / Zionism as a conspiracy - I don't know what that is. I don't like Zionism as I understand it. It seems like radical colonialism. I'm not a mystic.

World Monetary Fund / IMF as concentrated effort to fuck things up (as oppose to just being idiots that don't pay attention to history) - The IMF and World Bank are criminal institutions. Read the "Economic Hitman" book. They are the global enforcement arm of Anglo-Saxon Mercantilism.

Climate Change - Happens. Solar activity is a big influence on climate.

Man Made Global Warming (very different from just "well, yeah, weather patterns ARE changing and seas ARE changing currents") - There is ZERO conclusive proof it is man made, and many experts reject the IPCC computer models, which have been known to be fed fudged data. CO2 is definitely bunk, as arctic core samples prove that warming leads CO2, not the other way around.

Obama's candidacy was rigged - All politics is rigged. If voting could change anything, it would be illegal. You can vote until you are blue in the face, the game is rigged against the little guy. Not to mention, I reject mob rule. It's incompatible with individual liberty.

All international struggles and policy are set by a small group of private individuals working cooperatively - Not all, but one has to ask what incentive a farmer, a butcher or a school teacher have in attacking a country half way around the world, populated by people they have never met, speaking a language they cannot understand. The answer, is none. As the legendary marine Smedley Butler said, "War is a racket."

All international struggles and policy are set by a small group of private corporations - See above. There is a lot of money in war and property destruction. Much more than in taxes and subsidies.

All international struggles and policy are set by China because it controls 30% of the world's capital - Never heard that before. China is a fly in the international ointment. Asia and Africa are terribly under-represented with the IMF/Bilderberg/Club of Rome/CFR etc. It's probably racism since most of the world's elites are known (and proud) to be for eugenics.

Current flu epidemic is to control population, and prevent them from thinking about economic crisis - There is no epidemic. Look at the #s. The only people promoting that it is an epidemic are those with something to gain politically, specifically the WHO. Government likes to keep people scared. It justifies their law making and confiscation powers.

Problem > Reaction > Solution.

If the world had no problems, we wouldn't need government. Governments create enough problems to justify itself in the minds of many.

Economic crisis was specifically manufactured to allow one world currency - That's what it has accomplished, I'm not sure that was the goal, if there was a goal.

Economic crisis was manufactured to ensure US became a socialist democracy - The US was already becoming a socialist state. It has been since 1913. As soon as the goverment institutionalized income tax, and a fractional banking cartel, it was all downhill from there. The central bank is actually a core plank of the Communist manifesto. It is impossible to have pervasive socialism without centralizing control of debt and credit. The economic crisis is actually inspiring people to become in touch with their capitalist roots. If it was the plan, it is a bad plan. The tea parties will be bigger and more radical next year. People don't like being taxed during the bust, they tolerate it during the boom. People also really don't like socialism when they get it because it's the path to serfdom and misery.

Economic crisis happened because people running banks make decisions based on Magic 8balls, and certainly aren't worth they're 8-9 figure salaries - That's false. To understand why they make such huge wages, you have to understand two economic concepts. Marginal productivity and moral hazard. The incentive is to engage in morally hazardous behavior because the government socializes losses, and this generates potential for enormous returns with no downside, which validate a higher marginal productivity than a receptionist or night janitor.

I don't believe anyone who makes their money honestly makes too much. If you steal one dollar, you're a much more morally reprehensible creature than someone who honestly makes $100 million a year. The notion that people "make too much" is based upon a clever lie perpetuated for hundreds of years, that specifically play on envy. The more economic activity you generate, the more prosperity you generate. People who make a lot of money should be regarded as heroes. Wealthy people generate the most market activity, and accumulate capital for future investment. Read Atlas Shrugged.

Obviously, no one has the knowledge to make absolute statements about such large scale possibilities and conspiracies. Most of your ALL questions have an element of truth to them.
 
  • Bin Laden - Alive
  • Al Qaeda, as separate from Bin Laden - Terrorist group intent on killing Americans. Will execute successful attack now that Obama has paved the way for them.
  • Terrorism, as separate from Al Qaeda specifically - Invented by the KGB, Al-Zawahiri was trained by the KGB, used as a military arm of certain regimes.
  • Iraq was about WMD - true
  • Iraq was about freeing people - true
  • Iraq was about securing strategic oil reserves - true
  • Iraq was about destablising the mid-East - ??
  • Elder Protocols of Zion / Zionism as a conspiracy - hoax created by the Russians.
  • World Monetary Fund / IMF as concentrated effort to fuck things up (as oppose to just being idiots that don't pay attention to history) - Attempt at global government that Obama is paying obeisance to
  • Climate Change - Incorrectly attributed to CO2 in order to destroy economies.
  • Man Made Global Warming (very different from just "well, yeah, weather patterns ARE changing and seas ARE changing currents") - Scam perpetrated by enemies of capitalism.
  • Obama's candidacy was rigged - If by rigged you mean he ran against a total joke, he's still never produced his birth certificate in a court of law, and had a totally compliant media. Then yes, it was rigged.
  • All international struggles and policy are set by a small group of private individuals working cooperatively - ludicrous.
  • All international struggles and policy are set by a small group of private corporations - ludicrous
  • All international struggles and policy are set by China because it controls 30% of the world's capital - ludicrous
  • Current flu epidemic is to control population, and prevent them from thinking about economic crisis - even if it is an epidemic, its not dangerous. possibly hyped to divert attention from the economy.
  • Economic crisis was specifically manufactured to allow one world currency - single currency is secondary, primary goal was destruction of U.S. economic system
  • Economic crisis was manufactured to ensure US became a socialist democracy - socialist yes, democratic we'll see..
  • Economic crisis happened because people running banks make decisions based on Magic 8balls, and certainly aren't worth they're 8-9 figure salaries - ludicrous
 
It never ceases to amaze me when people mention democracy. It's a filthy word in my opinion. Like when people say they want socialism, as though they understand what that entails.

Democracy is majority rule, where 51% of people can re-institute slavery, or take voting rights from women. It's the system that elected Stalin and Hitler.

Your rights as a natural being do not come from other men, their votes or their majorities. Your humanity and your soul belong to you and no one else.

It's really a shame when people talk about democracy as an ideal. That voting is more important than what they are voting on.
 
It never ceases to amaze me when people mention democracy. It's a filthy word in my opinion. Like when people say they want socialism, as though they understand what that entails.

Democracy is majority rule, where 51% of people can re-institute slavery, or take voting rights from women. It's the system that elected Stalin and Hitler.

Your rights as a natural being do not come from other men, their votes or their majorities. Your humanity and your soul belong to you and no one else.

It's really a shame when people talk about democracy as an ideal. That voting is more important than what they are voting on.

Hitler needed quite a bit of special circumstances to go his way in order to gain the power he did, and even still, he didn't necessarily gain a majority of votes in Germany at the time. His party was only around 30-35% if I recall correctly.

The ideal is more power for the people and less for the government. It's decentralizing authority among the government and breaking it up as much as possible. It's allowing the people to choose representation.

These ludicrous examples of voting for women or slavery wouldn't even be possible in a democracy with a decent bill of rights. In case you didn't notice, our democracy has consistently worked out those problems, in both cases moving away from them. Do you honestly think if a 'slavery referendum' was put to the people, a majority would vote in favor of it?
Or a referendum to deny women the chance to vote?

Sometimes I'm not sure what world people are living in when they come up with these theoretical scenarios. Or why you would quibble over democracy as a concept when millions live under totalitarian rule. I'm sure they wouldn't reject the right to actually have a say in their governance. They wouldn't snootily belittle it or haughtily pick it apart. They'd gratefully accept it and be thankful somebody cared enough to expand their sphere of freedom.
 
The ideal is more power for the people and less for the government. It's decentralizing authority among the government and breaking it up as much as possible. It's allowing the people to choose representation.
No. It's allowing people to represent themselves.

Sometimes I'm not sure what world people are living in when they come up with these theoretical scenarios.
I'm repeating the ideas of Thomas Jefferson. He's the one who wrote that democracy is mob rule.

God, I forgot what an anti-intellectual you are. Back on ignore.

@Harv, I'm unsubbed. PM me if you want to discuss my last post to you.
 
No. It's allowing people to represent themselves.


I'm repeating the ideas of Thomas Jefferson. He's the one who wrote that democracy is mob rule.

God, I forgot what an anti-intellectual you are. Back on ignore.

@Harv, I'm unsubbed. PM me if you want to discuss my last post to you.

Ah yes, the predictable label. Forgive me, oh great intellectual.

Yes, I remember Thomas Jefferson warning how democracy would eventually 'overturn women's rights to vote' and 're-enslave the black man'. I think I read that in history class.

Regardless of the negatives of democracy, what's the alternative? Authoritarianism? Totalitarianism? Republics are the best option out of all of them.

What's the point of criticizing if you can't provide a better alternative? All you can hope to do is break up the power enough so that its never too centralized, which is what we accomplished to a large extent. I'm not sure why you're so sensitive whenever anyone contradicts you, and you have to retreat into your "I'm such an 'intellectual'" defense when your feelings get hurt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.