Watch Michael Moore's Documentary, SiCKO.

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DruSam

DruSam

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I'm not asking you. I'm telling you. Download it now, wait till it comes out, or see it at a friend's house. I don't care Americans, watch that fricken movie. Then do the research to back up the claims made in the movie. You'd be hard pressed to find something that isn't true. The only thing I found to be misleading was the portrayal of Cuban health care which has some major issues of it's own, and ranks around the same as ours.

I've done my research outside of the movie, and I feel lied to and really fricken stupid to believe the lies perpetuated by universal health care critics. The other 5 largest economies right behind the United States all have universal health care, and alas are doing fine. Researching these things just drives the point home that we are not going to turn into Soviet Russia just for getting a health care system that might after all do us some good.

Another lie is that we can never afford universal health care. Well, critics are right on that one, we can't. Unless we cut the bullshit that is hurling our nation into now 8.8 trillion dollars worth of debt anyway. Wars, broken welfare systems, BS pet projects, etc. I'm saying our priorities in America are really fucked up. We'll go to war in some godforsaken place in the middle east but we won't take care of our citizens health? If we got our priorities straight, we could afford it.
 


Yeah. I watched the leak REAL early (some how I was lucky enough to check Veoh when it was still up). And I remember watching it and just being mindblown. And, meanwhile, it had a few weeks til it was released and Id read reviews about people saying 'Oh fuck Michael Moore. Here we go again.'

Then, slowly, the reviews start trickling in and people are like wow.

Yeah, its good shit. Insurance companies are assembling lobbyists and campaigns now to counteract this one. I certainly hope Moore causes some change.
 
I couldn't sit through it after the first 40 minutes.. not because I don't think the topic is legitimate, but because I don't want to learn about it from Michael Moore.
 
DruSam said:
I'm not asking you. I'm telling you. Download it now, wait till it comes out, or see it at a friend's house. I don't care Americans, watch that fricken movie. Then do the research to back up the claims made in the movie. You'd be hard pressed to find something that isn't true. The only thing I found to be misleading was the portrayal of Cuban health care which has some major issues of it's own, and ranks around the same as ours.

I've done my research outside of the movie, and I feel lied to and really fricken stupid to believe the lies perpetuated by universal health care critics. The other 5 largest economies right behind the United States all have universal health care, and alas are doing fine. Researching these things just drives the point home that we are not going to turn into Soviet Russia just for getting a health care system that might after all do us some good.

Another lie is that we can never afford universal health care. Well, critics are right on that one, we can't. Unless we cut the bullshit that is hurling our nation into now 8.8 trillion dollars worth of debt anyway. Wars, broken welfare systems, BS pet projects, etc. I'm saying our priorities in America are really fucked up. We'll go to war in some godforsaken place in the middle east but we won't take care of our citizens health? If we got our priorities straight, we could afford it.
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Universal healthcare is socialist healthcare. And there already exits options for uninsured people. The hospicals can't turn away patients even if they they can't afford treatment or are uninsured; even at the detriment of taxpayers who end up coverign the costs.
 
maxor said:
This movie has already been debunked.

Why do people still believe Moore's half truths.

OP, did you REALLY do "research" or are you just saying that?
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yes, just saying it. link to debunking? Ive been looking for some harsh and extensive criticism that cites sources.
 
DruSam said:
yes, just saying it. link to debunking? Ive been looking for some harsh and extensive criticism that cites sources.
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I just found a couple... they don't cite sources just common sense and basic economics.

Moore's movies always get debunked, wait for it to be out for a week or two and they'll start popping up.

There is a good Cato podcast about the US healthcare system, I'll find it later...
 
I haven't seen the movie... but a few points about American Health Care:
  • Universal Health Care should be offered to kids. Seriously... it's not like children have chosen to live their lives one way or another and "got" themselves into certain situations. All kids deserve health care.
  • If Health Care was streamlined with better technology that was more integrated, time and money would be saved that could go towards a more diverse health care program.
  • Insurance companies want to find any reason possible to NOT cover you. The insurance company should be on your side. Somehow, this inbalance needs to be addressed. There should be some type of incentive for focusing on preventative health care.
On another note, I would REALLY REALLY REALLY like to know things like: how much money does the government spend on NASA for the space program? I'm pretty sure if we simply halted NASA for a year or two we could fix the educational infrastructure, get homeless people off the streets and have much more Universal Health Care system.

Priorities priorities. Everyone has their own and they usually aren't the right ones.
 
maxor said:
This movie has already been debunked.

Why do people still believe Moore's half truths.

OP, did you REALLY do "research" or are you just saying that?

Read:
Cato-at-liberty » Sicko or Wacko?
Movies
BOTCHED OPERATION | By KYLE SMITH | New Movies | Upcoming Movies | Ratings


You're against broken wellfare systems but you want a welfare system for healthcare? The economics of "universal healthcare" don't make sense. They just don't, end of story, it's a bad idea.
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thanks for links.
 
maxor said:
Cato-at-liberty » Sicko or Wacko?
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you call that debunking? lol. he starts off by talking about the 50 mill uninsured mentioned, when it was said in the beginning of the film that it's not about them but about the 250 mill INSURED americans. then he proceeds to talk about "problems" with canada/uk/france's systems without citing sources and deliberately avoiding the issue at hand all long. that being the fact that americans are majorly fucked by the health insurance companies. seriously, anyone who has actually watched the film would laugh off such "debunking" :anon.sml:
 
The problems with the Canadian system are just problems, we wont be privatizing healthcare.

I was in the hospital last night and I have no doubt in my mind that some of the older folks there were poor. If it wasn't for universal healthcare they'd be on the streets dying, or if they did get in, their kids would be crippled by the hospital bill. So yeah, we might pay a little more in taxes, but it saves lives and it saves families.
 
poolemit said:
then he proceeds to talk about "problems" with canada/uk/france's systems without citing sources and deliberately avoiding the issue at hand all long.
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Are you disputing any of the things the guy is saying or are you just ignoring them because they conflict with what you think (based on what research?) to be true?

Does Moore cite statistics in his movie? In Moore's past movies he never cites statistics or his sources, why are you so accepting of what he says?

poolemit said:
that being the fact that americans are majorly fucked by the health insurance companies. seriously, anyone who has actually watched the film would laugh off such "debunking" :anon.sml:
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How are american's majorly fucked by health insurance? Aside from the handful of people that Moore found for his movie, where are these vast droves of "fucked" people?

Would you like to wait in line for weeks/months/years along with paying more taxes for your universal healthcare?
 
Everyone always says Switzerland has one of the best public health care systems in the world... but I know a girl who lives there.

They are required to have health insurance, kind of like how we are required to have auto insurance. I haven't verified this... this is just what she told me.

So, their health care system might be great, but it's mandatory to carry insurance. That would NEVER work in the United States.
 
zayd said:
The problems with the Canadian system are just problems, we wont be privatizing healthcare.

I was in the hospital last night and I have no doubt in my mind that some of the older folks there were poor. If it wasn't for universal healthcare they'd be on the streets dying, or if they did get in, their kids would be crippled by the hospital bill. So yeah, we might pay a little more in taxes, but it saves lives and it saves families.
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Price ceilings do not save families. They create shortages.

If privatized/profit driven insurance is such a bad idea why does it work with Auto, Home, Renters, Boat etc. etc. etc. ?
 
maxor said:
Price ceilings do not save families. They create shortages.

If privatized/profit driven insurance is such a bad idea why does it work with Auto, Home, Renters, Boat etc. etc. etc. ?
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Listen, I'm not an expert when it comes to insurance. All I know is that the Canadian system works. That's all I'm saying. I'm not judging the American system, you guys are obviously operating on a different dynamic.
 
zayd said:
Listen, I'm not an expert when it comes to insurance. All I know is that the Canadian system works. That's all I'm saying. I'm not judging the American system, you guys are obviously operating on a different dynamic.
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Fair enough. I've got you, a supposed canadian citizen, telling that you think the system works. I've got other canadian friends saying it doesn't.

So I'm Net: 0 for Canadian healthcare. :D
 
maxor said:
Fair enough. I've got you, a supposed canadian citizen, telling that you think the system works. I've got other canadian friends saying it doesn't.

So I'm Net: 0 for Canadian healthcare. :D
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
 
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