We are the universe
- Thread starter mattseh
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I love how "God" is the only claim in the world that requires zero proof or evidence of any kind, physical or logical, and people are somehow totally satisfied with that.
Atheists aren't pissed that you believe in God. We're pissed that God somehow gets a scientific free pass when those very theists that believe in an all-powerful "energy" with zero proof whatsoever are the same people who reject a scientific worldview (evolution, etc.) for lack of sufficient convincing evidence.
You can tell me you believe in love without any physical proof. Or that you believe in justice. These are fine as they exist IN YOUR BRAIN. But when you start claiming things that exist independent of you and offer no evidence whatsoever, there's little separating you and this guy:
Atheists aren't pissed that you believe in God. We're pissed that God somehow gets a scientific free pass when those very theists that believe in an all-powerful "energy" with zero proof whatsoever are the same people who reject a scientific worldview (evolution, etc.) for lack of sufficient convincing evidence.
You can tell me you believe in love without any physical proof. Or that you believe in justice. These are fine as they exist IN YOUR BRAIN. But when you start claiming things that exist independent of you and offer no evidence whatsoever, there's little separating you and this guy:
I love how "God" is the only claim in the world that requires zero proof or evidence of any kind, physical or logical, and people are somehow totally satisfied with that.
Atheists aren't pissed that you believe in God. We're pissed that God somehow gets a scientific free pass when those very theists that believe in an all-powerful "energy" with zero proof whatsoever are the same people who reject a scientific worldview (evolution, etc.) for lack of sufficient convincing evidence.
You can tell me you believe in love without any physical proof. Or that you believe in justice. These are fine as they exist IN YOUR BRAIN. But when you start claiming things that exist independent of you and offer no evidence whatsoever, there's little separating you and this guy:
You no have a grasp on metaphysics? Physics, which actually does apply in this world, is actually supporting the possibility that there is matter outside of our universe (aka transcendental) that is having a gravitational affect ala dark flow. Also, things like gravity support the theory that are more spacio-temporal dimensions than the four we perceive, which means that there is actually stuff in this universe that you will never detect as well.
Materialists sure do like to think they know everything.
You can't just say, "There exists shit that we don't know about, therefore God."
Nobody invoked the God of the Gaps! I'm just saying that perhaps closing your mind off to the possibilities isn't so wise. Militant atheism is akin to fundamentalist Christianity and Islam. They are dangerous because they attempt to aggressively force people to NOT THINK.
I like throwing the baby (progress) out the window with the bath water (low-level religious belief). High level spiritual attainment, however...
So I say that I'm disappointed at the lack of evidence shown for God's existence, and your reply is that I'm discouraging people from thinking?
Alright, I gotta get to work.
Nah, I'm really just trying to say that you won't get any evidence for metaphysical realities beyond subjective evidence that occurs internally. And that usually it takes a certain level of spiritual refinement (or psychosis) to experience it.
There are people who believe this kind of stuff because mommy and daddy taught them to do so. Then there are those that believe it because they walked the walk and had the experiences. But those experiences are subjective.
The real point then becomes, is trying to undermine the veracity of these experiences worthwhile, or is it more important to focus on the impact they have on the individual and society?
When you need psychosis to experience or understand something...you're doing it wrong.
The universe sprang forth from nothing or from something that we can't detect, and the entire universe itself can be looked at as evidence of that. Calling that nothing or something "God" or "X" or "energy" is just a label that doesn't change whatever it is.
It doesn't seem scientific to only look at the topic in a black or white, paint with a broad brush type of way. There's various definitions of "God", the Vatican endorses evolution, etc. Yet despite this atheists sometimes seem intent on talking about God and such only in terms of the way that strict religious fundamentalists want to define it.
Einstein also seemed to be of the opinion that some atheists and some fundamentalists often act as two sides of the same coin.
"The fanatical atheists...are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional 'opium of the people'—cannot bear the music of the spheres."
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."
"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists..."
"Your question [about God] is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism..."
Religious views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
God does not exist. Pantheism, deism, Islam, Hinduism what you believe. No intelligent force created this universe. Nothing, Nada, Jack, Zip, Zilch no God.
The good news is millions in Europe are waking up partly due to the Internet. Norway is a good example. The US and most arab countrys are still under religions control. I always wondered what Iran Iraq would be like if religion was not there. I think they would be as advanced as Europe, US Japan ect.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5naMKpP7kI"]James Randi about atheism and religion 1-2 - YouTube[/ame]
The good news is millions in Europe are waking up partly due to the Internet. Norway is a good example. The US and most arab countrys are still under religions control. I always wondered what Iran Iraq would be like if religion was not there. I think they would be as advanced as Europe, US Japan ect.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5naMKpP7kI"]James Randi about atheism and religion 1-2 - YouTube[/ame]
More epic quotes by Einstein:
"I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in the silence, and the truth comes to me."
"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
Check out 6000+ hand-picked quotes: RealizedOne · Enlightenment and Self-Realization (my bro's site, currently at the very early stages of development)
"I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in the silence, and the truth comes to me."
"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
Check out 6000+ hand-picked quotes: RealizedOne · Enlightenment and Self-Realization (my bro's site, currently at the very early stages of development)
We're discussing the meaning/concept here, not grammar/syntax.
Again, it's something you either feel or don't.
Let me try to explain it this way: everything's is in motion. Your heart is beating. The moon is orbiting around the earth. The sun is on fire. The galaxies are expanding. New stars are born, others die. Don't you see that there is a mysterious energy behind everything?
This statement you just made, my friend, represents mankind's arrogance in all its glory.
You really think we, humans, are that big of a deal that our rationality is above everything? Have you seen our size in relation to the universe? We are not even a grain of sand in the sahara desert. We are close to nothing. You really think there's nothing out there that's above your human rationality?
Let me add this famous quote by Kabir: (a Sufi poet that came up to the same conclusion as Neil de Grasse in the OP.)
“All know that the drop merges into the ocean, but few know that the ocean merges into the drop.”
Isn't it amazing that a scientist and a mystic come up to the same conclusion through 2 completely different paths?
Indeed. And the fact that we "moved past" anything in any particular religion proves that religion is fallable in the first place. (i.e. God was in the sky, until man reached space.)
Plus the fact that there are literally hundreds of religions is indicative that none of them know what the fuck they are talking about.
Some things SUP3RNOVA says are actually right, in a way. It is perfectly fine to be skeptical, as long as you want to find out the truth and you are open.
Ultimately, to realize the truth, one must completely empty oneself from all beliefs, as all concepts are false. However, you are not emptying it to make room for something new. You are emptying to become pure. Not to re-condition, but rather to de-condition completely from all notions, beliefs, morals, concepts.
Gods, universes, dimensions, angels and demons, your body and mind. All are just movements of consciousness. There is an unmovable essence in all of us, which is completely free of any quality (size, shape, color, taste, feel). This unmovable essence is the one that is aware of all movements. You can call it silent awareness, the absolute or complete emptiness. For as long as you identify yourself as a person, as a mind-body, sufferings will continue. When you realize that for your whole life (or rather hundreds/thousands/millions of years) you have been living a lie, and begin identifying with silent, limitless, absolute reality, you realize that you are complete. The sufferer disappears, along with his/her problems.
All this might sound like a complete BS, and it is understandable. Until experienced directly, nothing is enough to convince you. Even faith is not enough. You can have all the faith in the world, and still on daily basis think of yourself as the person, who is a doer of action and is a thinker of thoughts... and still suffering. However faith can be a helpful tool, if you know when to use it.
Psychedelics can be extremely helpful in this, if used right. They can give you a temporary direct experience of spiritual enlightenment.
Ultimately, to realize the truth, one must completely empty oneself from all beliefs, as all concepts are false. However, you are not emptying it to make room for something new. You are emptying to become pure. Not to re-condition, but rather to de-condition completely from all notions, beliefs, morals, concepts.
Gods, universes, dimensions, angels and demons, your body and mind. All are just movements of consciousness. There is an unmovable essence in all of us, which is completely free of any quality (size, shape, color, taste, feel). This unmovable essence is the one that is aware of all movements. You can call it silent awareness, the absolute or complete emptiness. For as long as you identify yourself as a person, as a mind-body, sufferings will continue. When you realize that for your whole life (or rather hundreds/thousands/millions of years) you have been living a lie, and begin identifying with silent, limitless, absolute reality, you realize that you are complete. The sufferer disappears, along with his/her problems.
All this might sound like a complete BS, and it is understandable. Until experienced directly, nothing is enough to convince you. Even faith is not enough. You can have all the faith in the world, and still on daily basis think of yourself as the person, who is a doer of action and is a thinker of thoughts... and still suffering. However faith can be a helpful tool, if you know when to use it.
Psychedelics can be extremely helpful in this, if used right. They can give you a temporary direct experience of spiritual enlightenment.