even if such scriptures existed, are you really giving a work of fiction written by King James and the church of England, that much merit?
Went to a rally today
- Thread starter papajohn56
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even if such scriptures existed, are you really giving a work of fiction written by King James and the church of England, that much merit?
I don't exactly fall under the crowd of people that believe the bible was made up. There is compelling evidence (ie:dead sea scrolls, etc) of it's authenticity however I won't dismiss the fact that not exactly all of it could have dodged any intentional tampering by man.
I won't post all 55, but here's a couple in chronological order.
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Psalms 9:17 - "The wicked shall be turned into hell,and all the nations that forget God."
Psalms 16:10 - "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."
Isaiah 14:15 - "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,to the sides of the pit."
Ezekiel 31:16 - "I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth."
Ezekiel 31:17 - "They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen."
Matthew 5:22 - "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Matthew 5:29 - "And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Matthew 5:30 - "And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Matthew 10:28 - "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Matthew 23:33 - "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"
Mark 9:43 - "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"
Luke 12:5 - "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."
Luke 16:23 - "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."
Acts 2:31 - "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."
Revelation 1:18 - "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
Revelation 20:14 - "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
Here are a few more. For some reason these particular ones don't make the cut for sunday school class.
Rape In The Bible
Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape. How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape escapes me. Perhaps they have been lied to about the Bible and carefully detoured around all the nasty stuff in the Bible.
So grab your Bibles and follow along as I show you all the nasty rapes that your priests and preachers don't want to tell you about. Note that in many places in the Bible there are references to "taking a wife". Don't be fooled into thinking that these were voluntary marriages. This first quote clearly shows that murder and force were used to "take" these wives.
1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn't give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".
6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!
7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Once again God approves of forcible rape.
8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Luke 16:23 - "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."
Lifting his eyes and being tormented doesn't sound like "removal from existence dot dot dot returned to the dust".
it's like decoding Shakespeare, except easier. damn.
why let a book dictate the way you live your life? we're all dying. quit worrying about what happens after
why let a book dictate the way you live your life? we're all dying. quit worrying about what happens after
Without reading the entire chapter we can't possibly know what context 'being in torments' is used honestly.
Fixed your secular inconsistencies. The real link between our founding fathers was Masonry, who celebrated all beliefs that honor a higher power, not Christianity, as much as Christians would like you (us, me) to believe otherwise.
Lucifer was the best and the brightest and refused to serve. So God punished him by sending him to American public schools and forcing him to eat at Chili's.
The story is about a rich man who used to eat well everyday, and neglected a beggar who was at his gate everyday, hungry and hoping to get some leftover food. When they both died, the rich man was tormented in hell, and when he looked up, he saw the beggar in the arms of Abraham.
He asked (still in hell) to let the beggar use some water to cool his tongue - the request was denied.
Next, he asked (again, while being tormented in hell) to help his brothers by sending the beggar to their house and warning them about hell and the torments which await them. This was also denied, with Abraham saying that they should listen to Moses and other prophets.
There is the context for you.
which when you couple with the fact that the biggest reason a person believes a certain faith is due to their geographic location and point in history, makes it ridiculously unfair that their individual faith would have any bearing on their external state. Had modern day fundamentalists been born 6000 years ago in Egypt they would be worshiping the pharaoh. For this reason, if there is a personal God its pretty unlikely to me he cares what you think of him or that he would allow that to factor into some judgement. On the other hand, its infinitely more likely (imho) that absolutely no one has any correct idea theory about either the definite nature of creation or the possibility of an afterlife.
That parable is talking about a rich man who went to Hell while a poor man went to paradise. In that story, he asks Abraham to warn the rest of his family to not make the same life choices so that they don't go to Hell too. I don't know how much of the Bible you've read, but I'm not sure how you can read some of those and think they all signify death; some of them clearly denote an option. This one for example:
He's clearly saying it's an option, not an inevitability. He's saying hell is so terrible that it would be better to lose an eye if it's causing you to commit sin.
Here he's saying fear isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it matters what you fear. He's saying fear of physical death is meaningless, but fear of spiritual death is something man should fear.
Again, he's signifying it's an possibility to be avoided at all costs. He's using extreme imagery to explain just how much you don't want to go there.
He was talking to the Pharisees when he said this. Honestly the entire Bible is like that. It constantly talks about two choices; it talks about holy people going to heaven and wicked ones going to Hell. Jesus probably talked about it more than anyone in the Bible.
You can believe the Bible or not, or believe whatever you want, I'm not sure how much you've read the actual text itself, but it becomes pretty clear if you get in depth that that's its main message. I don't really care if people believe it or not, but the text itself is fairly clear as to what it asserts. But like I said, you can believe whatever you want.
The text is thousands of years old and translated from languages that no longer exist. It contains passages that seem to be intended to be taken literally, passages that seem to be intended to be take figuratively, and multiple contradictory accounts that begin as soon as the two separate creation stories in the very first book.
People devote their entire lives trying to understand what is meant by specific portions of the bible. To say it's fairly clear as to what it asserts is absurd. In your specific hell examples, only one of your quotes even made it seem that hell (either the state or the place) would be eternal, and then only by saying the fire is never quenched. On the other hand, if the soul can be destroyed in hell (as stated in the other passage), then its not eternal now is it?
Have you read the bible? Did you make it through the whole old testament and still go "yup, this makes sense, I can see God doing this"
Lucifer was the best and the brightest and refused to serve. So God punished him by sending him to American public schools and forcing him to eat at Chili's.
lol..
Maybe it's absurd if you're an idiot who's never taken the time to see the obvious constant thread that runs throughout all 66 books. I don't need somebody to hold my hand because I've actually taken the time to read the text multiple times, something I'm virtually certain you've never done.
There's a constant, common thread throughout it all. It's not always referenced as hell, it's sometimes called judgment, slavery, chains, damnation, etc.., but it's obvious. Like I said, I could give a fuck whether you believe it or not. But don't lie about what it obviously says in order to soothe your nagging conscience.