I also opt out, but I generally lie about voting just so I don't have to hear that kind of bullshit from people.
A Message For The "Occupy Wall Street" Lazy Bitches
- Thread starter hellblazer
- Start date
maybe this has something to do with the protest?
But I suppose you could make the counter argument that our economies are/were way better than these countries.
It's a complicated problem, but it feels like it's rooted in basic human fallacies (greed, power, fear). Basically, all the same stuff society has been dealing with since the dawn of time.
Their protest should be focused on putting the bankers responsible for destroying the economy on trial. They're too unfocused and need some direction.
No, there focus should be on the government system that allows the bankers and other corporations to take advantage of
maybe this has something to do with the protest?
But I suppose you could make the counter argument that our economies are/were way better than these countries.
It's a complicated problem, but it feels like it's rooted in basic human fallacies (greed, power, fear). Basically, all the same stuff society has been dealing with since the dawn of time.
First off, it's very healthy to reward the most productive members of society. By doing so, people have an incentive to provide more value to society because it's in their best interest.
Now, should CEO's get paid 475:1 compared to an average worker? I believe that's a companies decision to make. If a company overpays it's executives, then the misallocation of capital will eventually be corrected. That, once again, is a healthy process.
I also want to comment on you calling greed a human fallacy. I recently watched a lecture by John Allison, former CEO of BB&T (one of the best run banks over the past 20 years). He has a very good argument as to why self-interest (greed) is a good thing, not something to be painted as evil:
Using Ayn Rand's Values to Create Competitive Advantage in Business (part 1 of 2) - YouTube
That's kind of the whole issue though, isn't it? And an issue without an easy solution. Those corporations aren't reinvesting into American society, because it's more profitable to invest in other regions of the world, hence why people are naturally pissed off.
The era of globalization, and this is only the beginning.
This is top-down. All "popular" movements promoted by the media are top-down. Am I saying there are no good people attending them? No, what I am saying is it was organised from the top, the usual well-funded commie groups (funded by government funded side-projects and major "philanthropists") are engaged to lead it and usurp the message. Cops are told to arrest in mass so the media can show that and the sheeple watching at home can become enraged and start caring about these "poor protester" and adopt "their" agenda.
This is all designed to enlarge the government and expand socialism for the well connected. You see some (probably a small group of Federal Reserve owning bankers) of the hyper rich will not suffer under socialism, they want it and promote it, because it destroys competition and prevents those in the middle class and the moderately rich (millionaires not billionaires) to climb any higher - i.e. up to their level.
They want an oligarchy and a mass of slobbering, poor, ignorant morons ONLY, no one else in between, and they are getting them.
But as I say, the masses have it coming, they perpetually want to get things without having to work for it... Anyway, don't worry the sky is not falling and if the west gets completely raided, just move to greener pastures...
This is all designed to enlarge the government and expand socialism for the well connected. You see some (probably a small group of Federal Reserve owning bankers) of the hyper rich will not suffer under socialism, they want it and promote it, because it destroys competition and prevents those in the middle class and the moderately rich (millionaires not billionaires) to climb any higher - i.e. up to their level.
They want an oligarchy and a mass of slobbering, poor, ignorant morons ONLY, no one else in between, and they are getting them.
But as I say, the masses have it coming, they perpetually want to get things without having to work for it... Anyway, don't worry the sky is not falling and if the west gets completely raided, just move to greener pastures...
I don't know why you quoted me, because your response doesn't relate at all to what I said.
I said a society should reward the most productive members accordingly. Do you disagree with that?
If people are pissed off at our current situation, they should be mad at our government. This situation is almost entirely due to poor policy by the government, from Freddie/Fannie Mae, to the FDIC, and the Fed.
I'm not sure why you would think globalization is the problem here.
AGree that self interest is a driving force, but when is enough, enough? Never?
perhaps - greed is a fallacy in the form of taking something from someone "just because you can" - and NOT in the form of trying to better some aspect of efficiency.
IMO
I think you are combining two different "self" actions. There's acting in your own self interest, and there's being self-destructive.
When you take advantage of other people, you are being self destructive.
When you operate a business to make a profit, you are acting in your own self interest.
If i'm acting in my own rational self-interest, I don't want to take advantage of other people for two reasons.
A.) It's bad for business. Eventually people hear that you aren't trustworthy and won't do business for you.
B.) It's almost impossible to live a truly happy life when you take advantage of other people. In my own rational self interest, I want to be happy. So therefore I don't take advantage of other people.
For example, take my company and I. Drip Feed Blasts generates a profit, as that's in my rational self interest. However, we don't guarantee #1 rankings.
Why?
A.) word would eventually get around that we aren't trustworthy, and that would effect our ability to generate profit.
B.) I would be fundamentally unhappy because I'm knowingly deceiving and taking advantage of other people. That's not healthy, and not in my rational self interest.
For more info, watch the video I posted.
You said the most productive members should be rewarded, because they'll reinvest that money back into society. Great theory, and worked decades ago, but not the reality nowadays. Corps don't reinvest into America, because there's better margins in investing in other countries. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but just pointing out, rewarding the rich guys isn't helping the US whatsoever.
Agree and disagree. Agree, as long as the "productive members" (we're talking about "job creators" here, aren't we?
) are aware of the fact one of the main reasons they were successful was due to the society they established a business in. Without that societal foundation, it would have been much more difficult, if not impossible for them to achieve what they have.I don't agree. I think it's simply capitalism, technology, and globalization doing its thing. 40 years ago, it wasn't exactly easy to access cheap labor like China, India, etc. Nowadays, send off your AutoCAD files to Surachai via e-mail, and a couple months later your shipment of product is sitting in a container at the Miami port. Again, not saying that's a bad thing, but just how it is.
EDIT: n/m, didn't properly read the above quoted paragraph. I'm too tired, and my mind is mush right now. But yah, agree.
No, I never said they'll re-invest that money back into society. You reward the most productive people in your society because that's an incentive for them to continue to be productive.
Agree and disagree. Agree, as long as the "productive members" (we're talking about "job creators" here, aren't we?
Nope, you are trying to once again complicate a very basic idea.
You reward the most productive accordingly.
If you can't understand that basic idea, then you won't be successful in business.
Ugghh... I don't even know where to start with that. Successful company starts in US, makes huge profits, invests in various countries around the world instead of the US. They're taking money out of the US economy, and moving it into other countries. Not exactly helping the US or American citizens, now is it?
Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but that's why people are frustrated. You can reward the "productive members" all you want, but very little of that help will actual hit US citizens. Again, globalization doing its thing, and there's no easy fix for it.
I'm getting about a 150% pay raise every few weeks here, and I have yet to implement my actual long-term ideas, so don't worry, I'm not one of the frustrated ones who are about to rush out and sleep on some air mattress outside in New York.
Since you want to talk about globalization, let's talk.
You seem to only point out the negatives of globalization.
My company sells services to the entire world, we buy services from the entire world, our staff are located in North America, and we've contracted with people all across the world. We provide value to the entire world, including the United States.
Take a look at most of U.S. tech companies. They startup in the U.S, provide value to the entire world, and the entire world benefits (including the U.S.).
You can't just look at the perceived negatives of globalization, such as factory job loss in the U.S, and paint the entire economic revolution as a bad thing.
Globalization is a great thing, not something that should be punished by tariff's and protectionist actions.
If the United States want's to realize the full benefit of Globalization, then it needs to transition. It needs to draw talent from other countries, which is accomplished through a variety of ways. Low Taxes and a stable economy/society are two great examples. The U.S. also should make the import and export of goods/services very easy.
Fighting globalization is a losing battle. Embrace it.
And congrats on your 150% pay raises every few weeks. Your company is rewarding your productivity and value accordingly... sounds like something I said earlier.
This is why I always said, "not saying that's a bad thing, but just how it is" in my previous posts. And don't worry, I fully embrace globalization. Shortly we'll be moving to a not-so-touristy beach town, live in a beautiful home off the beach, private pool, good weather all year around, etc. Then I come to work every day watching my incoming continuously rise and knowing that I'm only at the beginning of what's possible. All the while realizing I could just as easily be sitting in some shitty office in downtown Toronto, making someone else money, hoping for my 6% annual raise, and living in some small, shitty 1 bdrm condo with shitty winter weather.
So don't worry, I'm all for globalization.
But I'm not going to be ignorant, and say, "everything's just fine and dandy. lazy, stupid cunts just need to get off their ass and work harder!". Like it or not, alot of their frustrations are legitimate. These are people who grew up with their parents feeding them all this "american dream" bullshit. Now that they're fully grown they're realizing, "hey, wtf!?!? that doesn't exist! and hey! there's people robbing my country of hundreds of billions. now i'm really pissed!".
My parents are actually a prime example of the difference in generations. After high school my dad took 2 years of instrumentation in college. By the time he was 22, him and my mom bought their first house. Nowadays a 2 year degree will be lucky to get you a job at burger king, and 3 roommates, because you can't even afford an apartment on your own.
Not sure where I'm going with this. Just a transitional change that we all have to get used to, I guess, so there's naturally going to be some anger expressed due to it.
With a 2 year degree - in a technical area - you are likely to make $15/hour after working at that job for 2 years. Assuming you get a skill that is in demand in some way, Is that is a safe assumption?
At $15/hr you can purchase the median priced home in the US ($150,000) with a $4,500 down payment. Maybe just below the median priced home, but if you are this young you should not have achieved the middle yet.
Where the fuck are you getting this
A. 2010 Median (not average but Median) priced US home 221,800
http://www.census.gov/const/uspriceann.pdf
B Who the fuck is going to give you a mortgage with 3% down
C. If you could get a mortgage with a 2 year work history and 3% down and buy a 150K house- which is IMPOSSIBLE but lets just play it out - your monthly is 1,264.18 for your mortgage
D. your pre taxed monthly earnings at 15 an hour is 2580, post tax will be about $1935
E. Leaving you 670 dollars to pay your utilities, gas, food, car insurance, and dollars for donuts that 15 dollar an hour job does not have health benefits. A fucking impossible equation
Why would I need to reward the most productive people, their reward is THEIR productivity. Productive people do NOT stop being productive because they have to pay a tax, or a fee, it that were the case Germany would be on its hands and knees, which is quite the opposite.
You are a fucking Moron... I erased everything else I typed out because you are a fucking Moron just says it all