Got Depression?

[amateursurgeon]

Depression comes from a cocktail of self-pity and avoidance of reality.

Been there.

You've got to want to not be depressed before anything positive can happen. If you're not serious about beating it, you won't.

• Break habits.
• Forgive yourself.
• Accept what you cannot change, and change what you can.

That's fine for what most people call depression (1st world problems), but not much help for people suffering from clinical depression (life-threatening illness).

OP - do you have disturbed sleep, loss of appetite, suicidal thoughts, inability to contemplate your future? If so, GTF to a doctor.

If not, pull yourself together, man! And eat properly/meditate/exercise more.

 

[guerilla]

We lost a member of this forum last year because of it, it's a real thing that can't always just be "toughed out".

You don't know anything more than anyone else about what he was going through.

Best not to use the dead for emotional impact in your arguments.

 

[guerilla]

That's fine for what most people call depression (1st world problems), but not much help for people suffering from clinical depression (life-threatening illness).

I don't understand the distinction. Please explain.

 

[IceToEskimos]

That's fine for what most people call depression (1st world problems), but not much help for people suffering from clinical depression (life-threatening illness).

OP - do you have disturbed sleep, loss of appetite, suicidal thoughts, inability to contemplate your future? If so, GTF to a doctor.

If not, pull yourself together, man! And eat properly/meditate/exercise more.

I believe the DSM IV draws a distinction between "depression" and "major depression" or "major depressive disorder (MDD)"

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Ohhh, another off the wall suggestion is maybe get a dog or two. Larger one though, like a lab or golden retriever, as they're more intelligent and empathetic.

Every time you wake up or come home, they'll be waiting with a big smile on their faces, wagging their tails in excitement to see you again. If you're down one day, they'll pickup on it, come over and hang out with you, maybe put their head on your lap while they look up to make sure you're ok. Take good care of them, and you'll have a friend for life, and an extremely loyal one at that.

 

[dchuk]

You don't know anything more than anyone else about what he was going through.

Best not to use the dead for emotional impact in your arguments.

best not to give advice about something that you haven't personally dealt with a few years either

 

[guerilla]

best not to give advice about something that you haven't personally dealt with a few years either

How do you know I haven't dealt with suicide and depression?

 

[Ar Scion]

It's not really a case of my being displeased with any of the details of my life, I think that a lot of people would be very happy to have the kind of life that I have. It's like some sort of spiritual ennui or something. I've had it since I was a child, and it's definitely worse in the summertime.

I keep standing on my front porch thinking about the revolting sameness of everything, and while I'm not sad, or unhappy, I'm not really present, either.

I'm just wondering, when you say revolting sameness of everything, are you saying novelty would solve the problem?

 

[IceToEskimos]

I'm just wondering, when you say revolting sameness of everything, are you saying novelty would solve the problem?

I suppose that's one way to look at it.

 

[King.]

Everyone's different, but the one thing that's always shocked my mind for the better is traveling. And I don't mean to a campground a couple hours away, but another country on a different continent.

Pack a bag of clothes, grab your laptop, book a hotel for a few days over the internet so you have at least somewhere to go, and head off to the airport. Take a few days to scope out the area, and find a decent place for a few weeks, or however long.

Hit a new country, with a totally different culture & language, and it instantly awakens almost every sense in your brain, and for the better.

Be careful with this, around 6 months ago I had depression/anxiety (I made a thread about it here too). I was ether panicky (high heart rate) or just emotionless (not sad, not happy, just feelings of pointlessness towards everything). Going abroad was good, but it didn't really get rid of it (in fact it made it worse at first because I thought i would solve my problem but it didn't really change that much, was still better to go though). It's been a couple of months that I feel normal again, those feelings are gone. I think sunlight may have something to do with it, as wierd as it sounds, I spent more time with the sun out, and spent less time staying awake at night and sleeping through daylight hours. And I exercised more, I stopped going to the gym because that place depressed me, instead I walk/jog in the park at sunrise, I also do some weights at home.

I think the key though is patience, those feelings ALWAYS pass. When it's in the moment it feels like that's how it's going to be forever, but it always passes and you go back to being normal, which you usually can't even think about feeling when you're in a depressed state. Just be patient and it will pass. But make sure you do what I said

 

[tatrasim]

Most people turn to drugs or alcohol. Some turn to hookers and kleptomania. I become apathetic. Insanely apathetic.

Yeah, I did alcohol and strippers for the first few months after a few things happened. Still drink, but not too much and mostly with friends having fun, not by myself... Took my mind off things for a bit... Did some other things I never thought I'd do too... Had a few things I religiously believed in, had to break some... Then I went around US instead to see friends I haven't seen in years. Worked great as it kind of took me back in time emotionally. I am now in Portland for about a week, 300+ miles away from my city closing up the debt holes, finishing what I can on the projects that I started before I move on to something new at the end of this month... Feels good to be away, decided not to deal with a few things at this point, leave it for later as they are beyond my control... Slowly getting back to doing shit I feel like I need to do. Took a lot of time to think where I am and where I need to be, adjusted the plans and timelines as I feel would work the best and got a new direction. Most likely will be moving to Sandpoint for a bit soon, closer to home.

Got to the point of trying a few drugs, looked at myself from the side and committed to not do them anymore, also not being around friends who do them for now helps. Tried the ones that would make me work for several days straight, worked once, didn't work the rest of the time... And then I decided, fuck it, if I can't do this without drugs, I'm just going to drop what I do for now... There are a lot of other things I can do well and I will do those for a bit while getting more knowledge on things I do now... Reading and learning new things makes me happy, so I do a lot more of those as well - programming, marketing, psychology, business books mostly.

Basically, like most said, find things that make you happy and do more of those. If you hate what you do, stop doing it for a bit, switch a career, get part time social job, etc., whatever you think you need. There are options. Always. If you can't stop thinking about some shit, learn how to be in control of what you think about. Head is like a can, if you think about garbage, it will become the garbage can and all the garbage you put there will stand on the way of thinking clearly about what you need to do and how to do it. Kind of like GIGO - garbage in, garbage out... Think positively, read things that positively affect you, be around people who positively influence you, etc. Eliminate stress... Sometimes just got to give time for things to sort themselves out. If you can't change something you want to be different, stop thinking how to change it and think about the things you can change... Start with little things.

I didn't go to any therapists, doctors, psychologists, etc... Just read a lot and dropped everything that was stressing me out for a bit. Well, I did read a lot of therapy material online and some books... I still get depressed from time to time, don't follow what I did, just my opinion, I just did what I thought would help me in particular. Had crazy thoughts sometimes, but that's then books helped to get me thinking about something else instead of what I was thinking. I was up to the point where I thought I'd go see a therapist, even got a phone number from a friend just in case. Nothing wrong with seeing one if you have to...

If you believe in Higher Power, pray, meditate, do whatever you think is right for you to make you feel better.

Things get better. Just think clearly. If you need help, ask for help.

Just my 2c.

 

[p0ck3taces]

have an opinion, but don't marginalize a life threatening illness that is much more prolific than most care to admit. We lost a member of this forum last year because of it, it's a real thing that can't always just be "toughed out".

I think it's absolutely terrible people are told they have a "clinical illness". That it's "not their fault" and it's just an imbalance in your brain. That they have no power over it and they need someone else or some pill to fix this "illness" they have. Telling people they have no control over the problem is so detrimental...

It's the complete opposite. No pill, no person, no outside force can change this "illness" for them. They are the only ones with the power to "fix" their "problem".

The imbalance and the "illness" people suffer is the effect, not the cause of the problem.

Have you ever met a depressed person who when explaining to you why they were sad they told you "well I just feel bad and I don't know why". "I think life is amazing, I have tons of people that love me and life seems so fun, but I just can't feel happiness".

No. People explain to you why they CAN'T be happy. Why life is pointless. Or how messed up their life is.

They have created this world where they are unable to be happy.

The problem is their belief systems. They don't have a "clinical illness". They have exactly what their current world view and beliefs are setup to give them.

You are the only one with the ability to change your own circumstances and that's why life is great.

 

[dchuk]

I think it's absolutely terrible people are told they have a "clinical illness". That it's "not their fault" and it's just an imbalance in your brain. That they have no power over it and they need someone else or some pill to fix this "illness" they have. Telling people they have no control over the problem is so detrimental...

It's the complete opposite. No pill, no person, no outside force can change this "illness" for them. They are the only ones with the power to "fix" their "problem".

The imbalance and the "illness" people suffer is the effect, not the cause of the problem.

Have you ever met a depressed person who when explaining to you why they were sad they told you "well I just feel bad and I don't know why". "I think life is amazing, I have tons of people that love me and life seems so fun, but I just can't feel happiness".

No. People explain to you why they CAN'T be happy. Why life is pointless. Or how messed up their life is.

They have created this world where they are unable to be happy.

The problem is their belief systems. They don't have a "clinical illness". They have exactly what their current world view and beliefs are setup to give them.

You are the only one with the ability to change your own circumstances and that's why life is great.

you're entitled to your opinion, but there's no need to put quotes around "clinical illness"...it is as much a real diagnosis as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and all other recognized psychological disorders.

 

[neotakezo]

I can't shake the feeling that every gain, no matter how significant, is ultimately an exercise in futility.

Well of course it is. We all die, our sun will one day supernova and even if our race has spread to other planets the universe is expanding and one day every solar system will be so far from all the others that we won't even be able to see the light from other stars. Also if the universe had a beginning it's sure to have an end, one way or another...So if you don't believe the religions (and these day what rational, intelligent person can?) then what's the point to being here?

Perhaps the only point is in the being, in the here and now.

To me that says that looking for meaning in the goals we set or the destinations we want to reach is the wrong tactic - the destination of life is always death, so don't focus on where you are going, focus on the path, on the roses around you that beg to be sniffed.

Which is easier said than done, I know. For me whenever I go back to Australia I always fall into a funk, I end up sleeping 16 hours a day and not really giving a rats ass about anything. But a change of scenery, get me to Asia, wandering around there, or staying on a beach and it's a total 180 shift. I start sleeping only 4 or 5 hours a day because I WANT to be awake, I WANT to be experiencing all that is around to experience, even if that is just online work.

The change of scenery is a big part of it but I don't discount the effect of very cheap and readily available ummm herbal supplements that most people travel to places like Amsterdam for. I'm told it makes some people lazy, for my particular chemical make up it energises me and gets me doing things and really enjoying life.

Could be there's simply a chemical deficiency in your own body/brain and one variety of anti-depressant or another might help fill that void? I dunno, I've never particularly liked doctors or wanted to take pills, so I can understand the desire to avoid that path. However I have an alternative - others may not.

Still just a change of scenery might help, it's at least half the problem solved for me as there are certain places my "herbal supplement" is available in Asia and certain places you want to avoid it like the plague...yet wandering around there anywhere makes me a totally different person to the one who lays in bed at home.

Also funnily enough reading books on Zen always helps too. I'm not a Buddhist and I don't BELIEVE in Zen but having said that there isn't really anything to believe with Zen and the whole point of it is to focus completely on the here and now, a good Zen book or lecture ergo does that pretty well, there's also a lot of humor in Zen, and humor by it's very nature is uplifting. I'd recommend Alan Watts as a starting point, particularly his lectures, you can hit up torrent sites for the mp3s...

 

[IceToEskimos]

Well of course it is. We all die, our sun will one day supernova and even if our race has spread to other planets the universe is expanding and one day every solar system will be so far from all the others that we won't even be able to see the light from other stars. Also if the universe had a beginning it's sure to have an end, one way or another...So if you don't believe the religions (and these day what rational, intelligent person can?) then what's the point to being here?

Perhaps the only point is in the being, in the here and now.

To me that says that looking for meaning in the goals we set or the destinations we want to reach is the wrong tactic - the destination of life is always death, so don't focus on where you are going, focus on the path, on the roses around you that beg to be sniffed.

Which is easier said than done, I know. For me whenever I go back to Australia I always fall into a funk, I end up sleeping 16 hours a day and not really giving a rats ass about anything. But a change of scenery, get me to Asia, wandering around there, or staying on a beach and it's a total 180 shift. I start sleeping only 4 or 5 hours a day because I WANT to be awake, I WANT to be experiencing all that is around to experience, even if that is just online work.

The change of scenery is a big part of it but I don't discount the effect of very cheap and readily available ummm herbal supplements that most people travel to places like Amsterdam for. I'm told it makes some people lazy, for my particular chemical make up it energises me and gets me doing things and really enjoying life.

Could be there's simply a chemical deficiency in your own body/brain and one variety of anti-depressant or another might help fill that void? I dunno, I've never particularly liked doctors or wanted to take pills, so I can understand the desire to avoid that path. However I have an alternative - others may not.

Still just a change of scenery might help, it's at least half the problem solved for me as there are certain places my "herbal supplement" is available in Asia and certain places you want to avoid it like the plague...yet wandering around there anywhere makes me a totally different person to the one who lays in bed at home.

Also funnily enough reading books on Zen always helps too. I'm not a Buddhist and I don't BELIEVE in Zen but having said that there isn't really anything to believe with Zen and the whole point of it is to focus completely on the here and now, a good Zen book or lecture ergo does that pretty well, there's also a lot of humor in Zen, and humor by it's very nature is uplifting. I'd recommend Alan Watts as a starting point, particularly his lectures, you can hit up torrent sites for the mp3s...

I haven't read Alan Watts in years...thank you for reminding me...

 

[guerilla]

Have you ever met a depressed person who when explaining to you why they were sad they told you "well I just feel bad and I don't know why". "I think life is amazing, I have tons of people that love me and life seems so fun, but I just can't feel happiness".

No. People explain to you why they CAN'T be happy. Why life is pointless. Or how messed up their life is.

They have created this world where they are unable to be happy.

The problem is their belief systems. They don't have a "clinical illness". They have exactly what their current world view and beliefs are setup to give them.

You are the only one with the ability to change your own circumstances and that's why life is great.

Thank you.

"Clinical illness" sounds great. What does it mean?

God only knows.

 

[p0ck3taces]

you're entitled to your opinion, but there's no need to put quotes around "clinical illness"...it is as much a real diagnosis as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and all other recognized psychological disorders.

I guess I just don't like the stigma that comes with the term "clinical illness". Yes we need to name these symptoms people experience. Yes, they are real and they are serious. They run in general patterns so we can somewhat distinguish them from one another. But they need to be named for what they are, symptoms, not the root problems.

We should look to diagnose the real root problem the person suffers from.

Calling it a "clinical illness" just seems too much like calling a symptom the root problem, which it is not.

These psychological disorders are just coping mechanisms the brain comes up with to deal with the reality it believes exists.

If you want to treat the psychological disorder you must look to the reality the person believes exists which is causing that psychological disorder.

But I guess it's a moot point. If people want to call it a "clinical illness", ok great. I don't like the term because of the stigma it has, but call it whatever you want. As long as it's understood it's just a symptom of a greater root problem. Which I don't think is understood by many and leads to people trying to treat a symptom, rather then the real root problem.

 

[neotakezo]

These psychological disorders are just coping mechanisms the brain comes up with to deal with the reality it believes exists.

You spout this bullshit like it's fact. Yet I can tell you that the FACTS of my own experience is that my belief in the reality of this world doesn't change when I travel from home to Asia, yet my symptoms DO change - radically.

At home, surrounded by the same boring bullshit and deprived of a certain chemical my body gets in Asia I sleep 3-4 times as much, can't find the energy to do anything, can't find the will to care about anything - except getting back to where life makes sense, where I become...normal.

I always come home every year for a few months, to see family and friends, sometimes to do a bit of extra work to save some more dollars, only that never happens. I always tell myself "this time will be different" this time I will work hard at home and not sleep so much and exist the way I do in Asia - never happens. I'm not coping with some sort of reality my mind thinks is meaningless and useless - I agree with much of your long post last page about how the meaningless of life can set you free. For the most part I thought that was an awesome post. 3/4 of the year I find life to be a wonderful and glorious thing, I wake up everyday with a sense of adventure and a desire to see what the day has in store. I don't expect there to be any afterlife and I may not even have a family to "continue my legacy" so I'm not interested in trying to build anything for the future, I just live my life enjoying the here and now - when I travel I rock climb, exercise, study martial arts, go white water rafting, snowboard go out and socialise, play pool. When I come home to Australia all of that vanishes, along with even the desire to be bothered trying to get out and do that.

As for the rest of your post, you are just playing semantic games. I could just as easily say that cancer isn't a clinical illness, it's just the bodies way of reacting when a free radical reacts with natural cell tissue in a certain way...

You say yourself you don't like the "stigma" of the term clinical illness yet you seem to have no problem telling people who suffer from it that it's not a real illness, that it's all in their heads - it's people like you and attitudes like this that leaves many deciding to suffer in silence and potentially leads others to just decide to end that suffering the easy way, rather than endure the humiliation of having some of the things you are saying in this thread aimed at them.

It seems you've never felt it, that's very good for you. But that means you DON'T understand it and so you try to put it into a perspective and terms you CAN understand, fair enough, we all do that. However what are you trying to accomplish by telling everyone here to effectively just pull their heads out of their asses and imply they just need to look at things differently and "get happy"?

Do you think you are telling them anything they haven't told themselves a MILLION times before?

You aren't helping anyone dude...you are just increasing the stigma associated with this illness and re-enforcing the decisions of those who read this thread in silence to STAY in silence and continue suffering in silence. You are welcome to your opinion but when it only really has the potential to hurt others you have to ask yourself what your true motivation is for trying to push that opinion repeatedly on us all?

 

[neotakezo]

I haven't read Alan Watts in years...thank you for reminding me...

If you enjoyed reading Alan Watts but never listened to his lectures I heartily recommend downloading them. Also if you are into AW there's a pretty good chance you've read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" by R Pirsig but if not then you should give that read too. Fascinating book, I've read it many times over the last decade or so and always get something new out of it. That dude is a seriously smart guy and at least part of that book deals with some of the things that are being discussed in this thread.

 

[cardine]

I think it's absolutely terrible people are told they have a "clinical illness". That it's "not their fault" and it's just an imbalance in your brain. That they have no power over it and they need someone else or some pill to fix this "illness" they have. Telling people they have no control over the problem is so detrimental...

It's the complete opposite. No pill, no person, no outside force can change this "illness" for them. They are the only ones with the power to "fix" their "problem".

The imbalance and the "illness" people suffer is the effect, not the cause of the problem.

Have you ever met a depressed person who when explaining to you why they were sad they told you "well I just feel bad and I don't know why". "I think life is amazing, I have tons of people that love me and life seems so fun, but I just can't feel happiness".

No. People explain to you why they CAN'T be happy. Why life is pointless. Or how messed up their life is.

They have created this world where they are unable to be happy.

The problem is their belief systems. They don't have a "clinical illness". They have exactly what their current world view and beliefs are setup to give them.

You are the only one with the ability to change your own circumstances and that's why life is great.

You are projecting the way life is for you onto everybody else.

There are certain chemicals that trigger happy and sad feelings. Self pity, happiness, and depression can easily be explained by having too much (or too little) of a chemical. I'm glad that you don't have those problems, those chemicals are in proper balance for you, and you can mentally do things to make your life better and more happy than you. But don't project your mental well being onto everybody else and assume it is something they can just tough out without the help of others (or medicine).