Australia's Sarah Palin... "I don't oppose Islam as a Country"
- Thread starter avatar33
- Start date
I try not to listen to the voices that deem everything i do is going to take me to hell. I question many aspects of Islam, while it seems that is not "proper to do" and you just can't bend the rules of a religion i choose to think otherwise. I believe in Allah and instead of seeing him as a entity that punishes you for every single wrong deed i try to view Allah as an entity of forgiveness.
At the end of the day whether you believe in god, and your Jewish Muslim Christian etc. you do what you do for yourself.
Not a christian baby, I'm against all kinds of crazy semittic nonsense. I'm a true heathen, currently reading [ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Prose-Edda-Mythology-Classics/dp/0140447555"]Edda[/ame].
Jalaludin Rumi is awesome, and so is Hafiz, Kabir and some other poets I've read. One of my favorite quotes is from Kabir:
"All know that the drop merges into the ocean, but very few know that the ocean also merges into the drop."
Some real deep stuff! That is the type of Islam that should be promoted, but too bad most Muslims don't consider Sufis as real Muslims since they write about wine, love and other delicate topics.
When I lived in Montreal, there was a Sufi center across the street from my house, and interestingly enough, it was mostly White/Christian people in there that converted to Islam/Sufism. There was also a Sufi restaurant called Rumi 2 blocks away, and it was run by 2 jews who turned sufis and took arab names.
Frankly I think Sufism is the only thing that can save Islam's image at this point. Muslims should be promoting it instead of denying it. From a marketing perspective it's their Acai berry right there! lol
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqVBGv2hpQ4]Rumi: Say I Am You (Sufi poem) - YouTube[/ame]
That's the nice part about Sufism, It's not about the religion. As Jelaluddin Rumi says
“Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again , come , come.”
Except that Christianity experienced separation from the state and had a long course through history of significant changes that have made it less harmful and disruptive than Islam.
"Christian way of life" is something that sounds like a fairy tale. "Islamic way of life" is a reality.
So the Christians got there first... their journey was wrought with blood and exploitation of other groups. Did they get a leg up from the spoils of war and Christian colonization via "death or Jesus?" yes. There are more Christians than Muslims on this planet. Now that the Christians have matured into a more peaceful phase they want the Muslims to "do as I say and not as I did." Of course yes it's in everyone's best interest to live in peace but it's a tad unfair if you can remove yourself from the violence.
It's like the industrial revolution in the US and Europe, we got a leg up on the rest of the world and in the process did tremendous damage to our planet. Now we want developing countries like India to "go green" even though that means they won't grow as quickly as we did. Again, as a world community it makes sense but for the group that's arrived last it has to suck.
Don't forget that Christianity as a whole is more fractured (orthodox, catholic, protestants, etc...) and is on a decline, not to mention that there is no Christian state, law or single source of authority. It has been relegated to the "moral" realm. The exception is Russia, where they decided to go asswards and revive it with Putin officially tying the knot. And the results were seen overnight, especially in what is known as "free speech" and "freedom of love".
Islam is consolidated, which IMO is where it's power stems from. They've got 70%+ Sunni as a majority and Shia with 10-20%. And don't think the Shia aren't getting surprise bombs from their extremist fellow Sunni either. Also, as far as programming the individual, Islam is the superior religion. They've solved the issue of monogamy and they've also taken a stance on killing others, which is hard to do, unless you're a religion.
That's exactly what it is. A "moral" and political tool to control another country.
Islam is consolidated, which IMO is where it's power stems from. They've got 70%+ Sunni as a majority and Shia with 10-20%. And don't think the Shia aren't getting surprise bombs from their extremist fellow Sunni either. Also, as far as programming the individual, Islam is the superior religion. They've solved the issue of monogamy and they've also taken a stance on killing others, which is hard to do, unless you're a religion.
That's exactly what it is. A "moral" and political tool to control another country.
But really that further consolidates my point, Christianity began as a very homogeneous religion and much of the damage had already been done by the time big factions started branching off. Divided it lost power... Now it's on the wane and Islam is on the rise.
Christianity's stance on killing people has been amended several times to suit the group though I agree that the New Testament is very very clear on the matter. And definitely polygamy is a heady selling point at least from a male perspective. If Islam is the superior religion perhaps we are then royally fucked.
Christianity's stance on killing people has been amended several times to suit the group though I agree that the New Testament is very very clear on the matter. And definitely polygamy is a heady selling point at least from a male perspective. If Islam is the superior religion perhaps we are then royally fucked.
Very few people understand polygamy under Islam.
The reason why Muslims were allowed to take multiple wives, was because in the battles to establish Islam during a time of polytheism, many men were slain, and homes were left without a breadwinner.
The Islamic tendency to polygamy was to allow a structured cultural way for men who could provide for more than their family, to take in another man's family after he was dead or could no longer provide for them.
In Islam, you can only take another wife if your current wife agrees, and if you feel you can treat both of them equally, financially, sexually, emotionally etc.
Sure, there are examples of bad polygamous relationships, but it was never intended to be a "you can fuck lots of girls" sort of thing.
Also, the word "harem" originally meant all of the women a man was responsible for, including daughters, cousins, sisters and wives.
Also for the record, I've stated several times I am more of a deist than a theist. I just happen to have very close friends whom I lived with, that are Muslim, and allowed me some insight into their culture and traditions. I don't have a problem with any religion, I have problems with humans who do bad things, not the ideas they use to rationalize those bad things.
Complaining about religion is like complaining about guns. Guns don't kill people. The bible doesn't kill people. People kill people.
Truth be told polygamy is not prohibited in the Bible for average members of the Christian church, only for bishops or church leaders.
I've always thought for a man polygamy is probably much more attractive in theory than in practice.
I've always thought for a man polygamy is probably much more attractive in theory than in practice.
No argument, the historical argument is sound but since that "history" has since passed, and the provisional requirement gone, why wasn't polygamy removed?
Because it's part of human nature and the wise men of Islam realized that. I bet it would be harder to convert a muslim, solely on the concept of sex, to go to monogamy after he experienced polygamy than it would be to convert a Christian to polygamy. I imagine that you don't have to cheat in Islam, or if you do, you can always invite your mistress over and convince your wife to accept her. There's no guilt there. The sex imprint is one of the most overpowering ones and if you can get to controlling that, you've got him for life.
Because cultures evolve slowly? Because religions almost never reform? Jesus tried and the Jews killed him as a false messiah.
And lastly, because if you allow something, then you disallow it, you ex post make the previous allowed activity look like (1) an exception and/or (2) it was illicit.
I don't pretend to know what people I have never met, who lived before I was born, were thinking. YMMV.
You're forgetting that rich men in the past (muslim, roman, asian) had both wife and also concubines if not outright sex slaves.