A Message For The "Occupy Wall Street" Lazy Bitches

[LotsOfZeros]

Bush says sacrificed free-market principles to save economy

John Boehner Says Republicans Must 'Sacrifice' to Avoid Debt Crisis - ABC News

Sarah Palin Calls for Sacrifice From Working People

"Real solidarity means everyone being willing to sacrifice." - Sarah Palin

How about the 1,000's of times we hear Obama, Biden, Reid, Pelosi, Frank, Schumer ... and about 300 other libs talk about how we all need to sacrifice, get some 'Skin in the game'?

Guess I couldn't expect you to actually be balanced in your obvious link postings eh?

 

[Rexibit]

Who is this Jason the 53? Is he Vista? Is he Ubuntu? Is he Windows 8? Is he centOS? Is He Mac? Is he PC?

WHAT IS HE?!

 

[stmadeveloper]

I'm love the "GET MONEY OUT" part of the messages you see out there. A lot of what we are seeing on t.v. with the protests are the media hand picking the folks who look/sound like idiots.

There are some tremendous speeches with common sense, and demands that MAKE SENSE and that any conservative SHOULD get behind.

Besides these 20 somethings were told - by their parents, their teachers, their highschools, the politicians, the counselors, the media, and the colleges that they HAD to go to school to get a degree, HAD to do it anyway they could.

Hell you can't work non-skilled labor and pay your way through most 4 year schools anymore. $8 bucks an hour doesn't equate to 16k tuition. I'd be pissed if i was them.

I paid off my student loans (secondary education degree) after discovering I did not enjoy being a teacher... hated it. Learned a trade and busted my ass for 10 years. My loans were below 50k for my 4 years of school though. Now it's double that, the jobs aren't there, the jobs that are don't pay shit, and the banks that loaned them the money got a bail out.

I can see why they are pissed.... The stupid ones are whining. The smart ones are calling for change that would make a difference - and the movement is being sponsored and co-opted by different organizations across the board.

Either way - they aren't on facebook, or watching sitcoms. Be proud that ANY American is standing up and protesting anything. Been to long.... and the powers that be have gotten away with way to much. Now there are people protesting the fed, money in politics, and people NOT paying taxes, or people paying taxes at all.

It's good stuff.

 

[JakeStratham]

Some of these recent college grads have just received an invaluable lesson in the cost of getting hustled:

The Debt Crisis at American Colleges - Andrew Hacker and Claudia Dreifus - Business - The Atlantic

Borrowing looms large in American life from homes to cars. But the explosion of student debt in the last decade is a pernicious trend that the colleges themselves are encouraging.

...

With mortgage defaults, banks seize and resell the home. But if a degree can't be sold, that doesn't deter the banks. They essentially wrote the student loan law, in which the fine-print says they aren't "dischargable." So even if you file for bankruptcy, the payments continue due. Hence these stern word from Barmak Nassirian of the American Association of College Registrars and Admissions Officers. "You will be hounded for life," he warns. "They will garnish your wages. They will intercept your tax refunds. You become ineligible for federal employment." He adds that any professional license can be revoked and Social Security checks docked when you retire. We can't think of any other statute with such sadistic provisions.

Some folks crumble when they get hustled. Some run to the state. And some learn from the experience, adapt, and change the way they evaluate opportunities and risks.

The first group can be ignored. The second should be feared. And the third holds the key to prosperity - for themselves, their families, and society.

(Now, if the state would just get out of the way.)

 

[Garrett]

Yet if you ask them if they like Obama, I'd be willing to bet 95% would say yes. So what "system" are they really fighting, when they keep putting the same motherfuckers in power?


Why aren't they protesting Obama? Why aren't they protesting his assassination of a US citizen without a trial? Why aren't they protesting the fact that Obama got more money from Wall Street than McCain in the last election? Why aren't they protesting him expanding our wars rather than getting us out like he promised? Why aren't they protesting his not closing Gitmo despite promising to? Why aren't they protesting his administration running guns to the Mexican drug cartels? Why aren't they protesting him extending the Patriot Act for 4 more years?

If they really want to fight the power, they need to quit being democratic fuck toys every election and start holding their Messiah to the same standard they held Bush to. Otherwise, they can never be taken as anything more than a liberal movement to redistribute wealth from those who work to those who don't.

the elections are a fucking scam dude.

While I see both sides of the argument, I'm gonna have to agree with what stmadeveloper and others have said. What I don't understand is why are all these 53%ers backing up the government? The government has been fucking up for awhile now in many different ways and the fact that people are protesting their bullshit ... any bullshit... is a good thing. If people don't protest we will slowly but surely start getting buttfucked even harder.

 

[JakeStratham]

What I don't understand is why are all these 53%ers backing up the government?

False expectations that the state, when filled with good, honest people, will do what is right. It stems from ignorance regarding the concept of self-interest, state-sanctioned education, and a splash of social proof.

In contrast, Hoppe starts this essay with a bang...

A government is a territorial monopolist of compulsion — an agency which may engage in continual, institutionalized property rights violations and the exploitation — in the form of expropriation, taxation and regulation — of private property owners. Assuming no more than self-interest on the part of government agents, all governments must be expected to make use of this monopoly and thus exhibit a tendency toward increased exploitation.

 

[ThePresident]

If you don't like the government your best bet is to leave this country.

If you don't like your financial status your best bet is to get to work.

It is so easy.

 

[liesnillusions]

I actually completely agree with all those points but I don't think it's fair to assume any of that about any of the people doing the protests... sure, I imagine some of them are going to fall into that bucket but I bet alot of them do not.

I guess I see the protests more in the light of there's alot of fucked up things happening on Wall Street and corporate greed, lobbyists, the buying of political power, and deregulation in general effect 100% of the people with the controlling 1% getting bailed out while the other effected 99% getting shit on.

I haven't seen any demands for handouts, help, or free money in any regards... the demands I've seen revolve around changing the way money corrupts our political system and how the financial institutions are marching right back into the same risky behaviors that put us in recession. All this while our biggest companies pay less and less taxes, are seeing greater profits, and aren't putting are largest unemployed pool of workers since the depression back to work.

I get I'm in the minority on this thread... just saying that I don't think all those protesters are lazy hippies looking for a handout... undoubtedly there's a few hacky sac circles going on down there... but I think alot of em are genuinely hard working people who are just pissed off

That needed reposting.

In the various pictures I've looked at I've seen more END THE FED type signs than anything else. You people are putting them in a tiny box, thinking you're better then them all. So you can ignore them, scoff at them, and continue being greedy.

Solidarity to my people doing something, no matter how unorganized or silly it seems. It's great to see some f#($*#* action.

 

[ThePresident]

http://youtu.be/aZDMLQM2Ps4

 

[stmadeveloper]

That needed reposting.

In the various pictures I've looked at I've seen more END THE FED type signs than anything else. You people are putting them in a tiny box, thinking you're better then them all. So you can ignore them, scoff at them, and continue being greedy.

Solidarity to my people doing something, no matter how unorganized or silly it seems. It's great to see some f#($*#* action.

That's what I was saying basically. I see GOOD stuff when I'm not watching the news. End the fed, get money out, end the bailouts, etc...

 

[-joe-]

If you don't like the government your best bet is to leave this country.

If you don't like your financial status your best bet is to get to work.

It is so easy.

*cough* except when you have to still pay taxes to the US government when you leave *cough*

 

[Garrett]

False expectations that the state, when filled with good, honest people, will do what is right. It stems from ignorance regarding the concept of self-interest, state-sanctioned education, and a splash of social proof.

In contrast, Hoppe starts this essay with a bang...
A government is a territorial monopolist of compulsion — an agency which may engage in continual, institutionalized property rights violations and the exploitation — in the form of expropriation, taxation and regulation — of private property owners. Assuming no more than self-interest on the part of government agents, all governments must be expected to make use of this monopoly and thus exhibit a tendency toward increased exploitation.

this may be going over my head, but my first thoughts after reading your post a few times is that ... we actually need to protest the government whenever possible just to keep those bitches in line (something that has not happened in a long time now). Otherwise the government will continue and actually increase in "continual, institutionalized property rights violations and the exploitation — in the form of expropriation, taxation and regulation — of private property owners."

Am I interpreting this stuff right? I never read or talk politics so bear with me

But regardless, my viewpoint is that you must protest the government if you are to consider yourself a true American. Didn't the founding fathers tell us to do this when our government starts fucking up?

 

[JakeStratham]

this may be going over my head, but my first thoughts after reading your post a few times is that ... we actually need to protest the government whenever possible just to keep those bitches in line (something that has not happened in a long time now). Otherwise the government will continue and actually increase in "continual, institutionalized property rights violations and the exploitation — in the form of expropriation, taxation and regulation — of private property owners."

Am I interpreting this stuff right? I never read or talk politics so bear with me

But regardless, my viewpoint is that you must protest the government if you are to consider yourself a true American. Didn't the founding fathers tell us to do this when our government starts fucking up?

You've got it right, Garrett.

Some folks protest the state by asking for less involvement in their lives (taxation, regulation, etc.). Others protest by demanding more involvement in their lives (entitlements). Still others protest by presenting a case for the complete illegitimacy of the state.

Here's the problem: While protest seems productive at first - because "YES! Folks are gettin' involved and doing something!" - it can just as easily be counterproductive. It becomes a cacophony of irreconcilable opinions amongst statists, minarchists, and anarchists.

The "winner" - and as long as the state exists, we all lose in the long run - is the group that aids the state in achieving its ends (ref. back to Hoppe's opening statement above).


On a semi-related note, this is a good series of essays on the ethics of voting...

The Ethics of Voting - Part I

It addresses some of the reasons I opt out. (Queue the standard retort from boobus Americanus: "Boy, if you ain't gonna vote, you ain't gotta a right tuh complain about nuthin'." lol)

 

[Garrett]

Here's the problem: While protest seems productive at first - because "YES! Folks are gettin' involved and doing something!" - it can just as easily be counterproductive. It becomes a cacophony of irreconcilable opinions amongst statists, minarchists, and anarchists.

Yea!

I've always thought to myself how unmanageable the US is simply due to it's sheer size. It's like a campaign that is impossible to optimize because there are a billion variables. And then the problem arises of figuring out how to split test everything

 

[liesnillusions]

Voting for a president that is supposedly going to change the world isn't the way to go. People need to start taking more responsibility for their lives and not let it go into the hands of a candidate. Voting for a president is a sheepish action, protesting in the streets over injustices is not.

 

[DanWesson]

it doesn't make any sense for these idiots to protest against the system in the street, then go vote Obama back in next November.

Truest statement in the whole of both threads on this.

Sure, there seems to be a Libertarian element and End the Fed/Paul supporters scattered throughout, but most of the videos I've seen (not just what the MSM is reporting) as well as a local "Occupy" group's website with a forum I trolled indicates to me that overwhelmingly the majority are Obama supporters and identify themselves as "Progressive".

I support their right to protest, but as JakeStratham pointed out, the one's protesting for MORE state involvement (which evidence shows they are numerous in these occupations) are the one's to be most concerned about.

 

[REIMktg]

They clearly want more govt.

If the Fed's came to them, offered to re-fi their debt into the Federal program & a job, and then erase 10% for each year of employment with their newly created Federal job, they would all fall into line immediately. There is no "spine" to this group. They want nothing more than to satisfy themselves - do any of you OWS supporters believe otherwise?

 

[Moxie]

How about the 1,000's of times we hear Obama, Biden, Reid, Pelosi, Frank, Schumer ... and about 300 other libs talk about how we all need to sacrifice, get some 'Skin in the game'?

Guess I couldn't expect you to actually be balanced in your obvious link postings eh?

You should know by now that I only posted that to once again point out how hellblazer is more about being anti-democrat, than he is about holding and sticking up for consistent viewpoints. The tea party quickly ended up having many people with contrary views to that of Ayn Rand, but of course hellblazer didn't complain and instead defended them if I remember correctly.

 

[MSTeacher]

Assuming no more than self-interest on the part of government agents

*sigh*

While protest seems productive at first - because "YES! Folks are gettin' involved and doing something!" - it can just as easily be counterproductive. It becomes a cacophony of irreconcilable opinions amongst statists, minarchists, and anarchists.

This really is the problem particularly right now. The most productive political movements emerge when disparate groups put their differences aside and focus on very specific common interests. They come with rhetoric and mass appeal but they also come with specific demands and actionable program to realize them. The occupy wall street crowd is failbombing hard on this. They don't agree on much across the board and what they do agree on is largely meh IMO.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I refuse to believe that this invalidates the value of protest. Dissent is a basic human behavior.

 

[(O_o)]