Deomcrats fail

[Rexibit]

I think that the ultra-rich are the ultra-rich in the US.

Yeah. Either they were born with money or they worked their asses off to get that money (minus Ryan Eagle slinging berries and making it on rebills, then blowing it on hookers and blow).

Its a bit strange to see so many affiliate marketers bashing the unions and supporting wealthy businessmen. These are the same entities that crashed the values of your savings, and then milked your tax dollars for a bailout.

No, that was a select minority of businessmen using Lobbyists. Lobbyists and the politicians endebted to them are what did that.

When you have people paying off other people to look the other way or changing laws that give them an advantage over others or extra abilities so that they don't have to work harder to succeed like everyone else, that's what happens.

You had businesses that Lobbied to get the politicians and media to make the public believe they were too big to let fail. No business is too big to fail and they should have be left to fail and be bought up by another firm.

Just because the way they use to make money wasn't working any more doesn't mean they need extra help in order to survive until they get off their asses to find a new revenue stream.

Now they are going to eliminate the unions, who have been a counterbalance for their activities.

Unions should be eliminated. They started out as a good intention, but so is the road to Hell.

If an employee is not doing their job or just taking up dead space in a chair, they should be let go. The company shouldn't have to go through the Union and convince them to allow them to be fired. If the employee has been doing a good job, then they should ask for a raise themselves and not have every other employee get a raise so that instead of getting a 5-10% increase in their salary, they all get a 2% increase whether they all deserve it or not.

The auto workers union is extremely bad about that. I have several friends that worked for GM and they'd tell you that some employees would just sit and read for a day out of the week because the Union contract forces the company to have a certain number of employees working a day whether they are needed or not.

You can imagine how much money is wasted that way.

Think: is it the millionaire business owner who buys your shit, or is it the 54 year old mom in the suburbs? Everything that hurts the average joe also hurts your affiliate business. Right now.

Anything that forces people to pay extra money to do business hurts the average Joe. The middle class is the only group in America that has been shrinking for the last several decades. The Rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.

Why is that? It's because of Lobbyists and Unions. Unions use Lobbyists to push their agenda and pay off representatives. Businesses use Lobbyists to pay off representatives. The representatives want to be elected again - so they do what they want.

Stop the buying out of representatives and let them all fail and this country can cut all the wasteful spending and loopholes so everyone can succeed on their own accord.

Don't worry about that mom in the suburbs. There has always been someone to buy useless shit. Cutting all that wasteful spending only means a more thriving economy.

 

[Rexibit]

The Democratic senators basically had no choice but to flee to try and salvage what they could.

If they wanted to have democracy, they should have stayed and proposed a bill that would work for everyone in terms of a budget. All Walker wanted was to cut spending by X%. Democrats know that they get funded by certain groups and didn't want to offend anyone of those groups by cutting funding to them so they chose not to propose a decent budget.

That's the root of this entire problem: representatives are too afraid about not getting reelected to the next term, they don't take the necessary stance to improve our country.

 

[zany zoroaster]

Please explain to me how public employee unions have been a counter balance to what has been happening on Wall Street?

I meant that unions have been a fundraising block for the Democrats, serving as a counterbalance to the Rebulicans (who have big business as the fundraising block). There is a blog that I really like, called the Weekly Sift, and they discuss the power play behind the union busting in this section The Weekly Sift: Drops
Busting the unions is not about capital or plugging up a budget shortfall. They passed this law precisely because there isn't any monetary component to it (that's why they were able to cut it out and pass it separately from all the budget cuts etc. that's in the original bill).

Why the fuck do you need to pay union dues to union bosses so they can bargain a better wage for you?

You and I can negotiate by ourselves - but the average american working in a factory/mine is not as articulate or as skilled. He also has a family to take care of, so he's less inclined to go yapping around by himself when he's unhappy (or he could find himself without a job). A public service unionist faces a different problem: he has only one employer. If a cop wants to switch employers, he has to uproot his whole family and move to a town where he doesn't know anyone. He's a worse cop for that too - because he doesn't know the people in this new environment.

The millionaire business owners are the ones who employ all the sheep

The millionaire owners are also the ones who don't really care whether their workers are Chinese or American. It is common to think that every bailout dollar and tax cut goes back to the American economy, but it actually goes to fund this same business' cheap factories overseas. The system of "trickle down economics" is a conveyor belt for American taxpayer money leaving the country.

I just think that we, affiliate marketers and small business owners, are closer to the small man than to the billionaire big businessman.

 

[zany zoroaster]

The auto workers union is extremely bad about that. I have several friends that worked for GM and they'd tell you that some employees would just sit and read for a day out of the week

I agree with you on a lot of things Rexibit (esp. the bit about Ryan Eagle :-] ). I also agree regarding the UAW - $75/hr for screwing in bolts is just crazy. I think that the free market could've taken care of that one too, if only GM was allowed to fail and the unionists would've gotten a good lesson about appropriate demands vs. crazy demands. (meaning: the union should have been allowed to exist, but also to suffer the consequences of its actions).

 

[Rage9]

Anyone who says that the Democrats "ran away" are blinded by the picture. Basically there is not democracy going on. It is WALKER saying this is what I am doing and FUCK YOU if you want anything else.

The Democratic senators basically had no choice but to flee to try and salvage what they could. You can look at it from your angle but, the senators have not been on a vacation. The thing that has upset me during the past couple years is how the Democrats have done nothing but appease the Republicans, offer concessions, negotiate bills and debate things. Only to have then turn around and SAY FUCK YOU WE HAVE POWER NOW...

Haha. What? They had no choice? Oh they had a choice, to sit there and take it like men. They ran away, tried to stall, acted like little bitches. Now they got butt pounded. Game-set-match.

 

[Spelunking]

You must be a product of a public school then if you aren't aware of the existence of private schools, the oldest of which goes back to 1628, charter and parochial schools.

You really think private schools are competition to public schools? When the average person is already paying a tax to send their kids to school and is trying to make ends meet, a private school is in no way competitive with the school the parents are already forced to pay for.

 

[guerilla]

You and I can negotiate by ourselves - but the average american working in a factory/mine is not as articulate or as skilled.

Then they should improve their marginal productivity and get a better job.

People who are not as skilled and useful as others, shouldn't get special benefits, certainly not to the point where they earn more than the people who pay the taxes to support their privileges.

Unions are parasitic. They raise wages by limiting employment opportunities for non-union employees. The evil factory and mine owners, aka capitalists, aka the people who create value in society, aren't sitting on mountains of gold and refusing to pay employees. If they did, someone would break ranks and pay more to get the better workers in that field so they could out-compete the other capitalists. Competition is the check on corruption. Unions are ANTI-COMPETITIVE.

There is a reason why people in white collar jobs don't need unions. They are skilled. Their labor is very valuable. The answer isn't overpaying for less valuable labor, it is in workers becoming more productive.

This is a long debate, but Walter Block explains the fallacy of unions, and of wage and price controls very simply, arguing with this other idiot who can only make shameless red faced arguments that are full of logical fallacies.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HTWy_vZfgE"]YouTube - Labor Unions and the Minimum Wage: A Debate Between Dr. Walter Block and Dr. Boyd Blundell[/ame]

 

[dmnEPC]

Haha. What? They had no choice? Oh they had a choice, to sit there and take it like men. They ran away, tried to stall, acted like little bitches. Now they got butt pounded. Game-set-match.

I don't necessarily agree w/ taking off however from when this bill was announced to the day that was supposed to be voted on was less than 3 weeks and the changes were supposed to go into effect by the end of March. There were no negotiations it was this is my ball and this is what were going to do. The Democrats were actually trying to allow Democracy to work but they fucked it up.

There was no talk of this during the campaign stage and it pretty much caught the state off guard when this bill was announced. These Dems did fail to get anything done during this time frame and for that they definitely fail. Our economy in WI is fragile enough (just like everywhere else) and this is going to have a major economic impact and spending will be reduced.

The billions of dollars claimed are all bullshit and don't exist. Basically whats going on here with the collective bargaining is Walker is pissed from when he ran Milwaukee and its basically a Fuck you to the guys that caused him problems there. I voted for Walker and the republicans and have my whole life. But its a joke to take this money out of the local economy and let the state government piss it away isn't going to do a damn bit of good.

 

[Gertex]

Anyone who says that the Democrats "ran away" are blinded by the picture. Basically there is not democracy going on. It is WALKER saying this is what I am doing and FUCK YOU if you want anything else.

The Democratic senators basically had no choice but to flee to try and salvage what they could. You can look at it from your angle but, the senators have not been on a vacation. The thing that has upset me during the past couple years is how the Democrats have done nothing but appease the Republicans, offer concessions, negotiate bills and debate things. Only to have then turn around and SAY FUCK YOU WE HAVE POWER NOW...

Okay, let me get this right... When Democrats have been elected to the House, Senate and Presidency, Republicans are suppose to - in the words of our elected President "Sit in the back and shut up", however when the populace votes in more Republican State Representatives and Democrats 'loose' on 'their' proposals - running 'away' is the only choice they have to protect Democracy (FYI - we are NOT living in a Democracy - it's called a REPUBLIC for a reason).

Not withstanding that Teachers in Wisconsin do NOT have the CHOICE to be in the union or not. Not withstanding the fact that they do NOT have a word in WHO the union funds GO TO! Have you even read the Walkers letter?

Excerpt:
--

In 2010, Megan Sampson was named an Outstanding First Year Teacher in Wisconsin. A week later, she got a layoff notice from the Milwaukee Public Schools. Why would one of the best new teachers in the state be one of the first let go? Because her collective-bargaining contract requires staffing decisions to be made based on seniority.

Ms. Sampson got a layoff notice because the union leadership would not accept reasonable changes to their contract. Instead, they hid behind a collective-bargaining agreement that costs the taxpayers $101,091 per year for each teacher, protects a 0% contribution for health-insurance premiums, and forces schools to hire and fire based on seniority and union rules.

My state's budget-repair bill, which passed the Assembly on Feb. 25 and awaits a vote in the Senate, reforms this union-controlled hiring and firing process by allowing school districts to assign staff based on merit and performance. That keeps great teachers like Ms. Sampson in the classroom. . . .

In Wisconsin, we have a better approach to tackling our $3.6 billion deficit. We are reforming the way government works, as well as balancing our budget. Our reform plan gives state and local governments the tools to balance the budget through reasonable benefit contributions. In total, our budget-repair bill saves local governments almost $1.5 billion, outweighing the reductions in state aid in our budget.

Am sure you are on board with firing based on seniority and not on merit.

If you would get your head out of your ass you wouldn't accuse others of being blinded. Start looking at things objectively and quit buying into the theory, that the 'rich' are evil and other class warfare bullshit, we might be able to have a reasonable discussion on this.

I work 40+ hours in a regular job and then at night am trying to build a consistent second income. Due to this I can afford a few toys and have extra money on the side. I'm able to have a nice pool and lots of drinks and snacks and steaks are grilling. Now my neighbor comes over, who isn't as 'lucky' as myself, working as a painter. As soon as he has his 8 hours in, he goes home to his family and watches American Idol or whatever else crap is on TV.

Because we are living next door to each other and are neighborly he and his fat children are now expecting to come over to my house, play in MY pool and EXPECT to eat my steaks and drink my beer. Cause I am the 'lucky' one and RICH!!!! I need to 'share'.

Yeah, totally makes sense... Keep blaming Koch and don't try to look at the man behind the curtain.

 

[Rage9]

I don't necessarily agree w/ taking off however from when this bill was announced to the day that was supposed to be voted on was less than 3 weeks and the changes were supposed to go into effect by the end of March. There were no negotiations it was this is my ball and this is what were going to do. The Democrats were actually trying to allow Democracy to work but they fucked it up.

There was no talk of this during the campaign stage and it pretty much caught the state off guard when this bill was announced. These Dems did fail to get anything done during this time frame and for that they definitely fail. Our economy in WI is fragile enough (just like everywhere else) and this is going to have a major economic impact and spending will be reduced.

The billions of dollars claimed are all bullshit and don't exist. Basically whats going on here with the collective bargaining is Walker is pissed from when he ran Milwaukee and its basically a Fuck you to the guys that caused him problems there. I voted for Walker and the republicans and have my whole life. But its a joke to take this money out of the local economy and let the state government piss it away isn't going to do a damn bit of good.

Ok here is something you guys are missing, you can not claim Democracy wasn't served. The Democrats never stood a chance against the bill. The Republicans wanted it and voted on party lines, the Democrats where heavily out number NO NEGOTIATIONS NEEDED TO HAPPEN. It was a moot point. Democracy was already served by the people when they over stacked the Republicans. Why should Walker have negotiated? To make the Democrats feel good about them selfs? He had "the nuts".

The money you are talking about is like $130 million this year, which is a fucking drop in the bucket in the big picture and will have no noticeable impact on the economy.

 

[justo_tx]

You really think private schools are competition to public schools? When the average person is already paying a tax to send their kids to school and is trying to make ends meet, a private school is in no way competitive with the school the parents are already forced to pay for.

Yes I do. My dad was a firefighter (his uniform was literally "blue collar") who did house painting on the side and my mom worked a mid level office job while raising us and taking college classes at night. Despite being middle class, without loads of disposable income, my parents decided to send my brother and I to a Catholic parochial school (a not-insignificant tuition required just like secular private schools) despite the illusion of free of the "competition" that is the public school system.

Your priorities and resources can define the scope of your market.

 

[dmnEPC]

Ok here is something you guys are missing, you can not claim Democracy wasn't served.

The money you are talking about is like $130 million this year, which is a fucking drop in the bucket in the big picture and will have no noticeable impact on the economy.

I never said democracy wasn't served. It absolutely was. This whole thing is way bigger than "teachers" and its going to have a negative impact. There is so much government fat and waste and these employees are a major problem. They could have just as easily gotten rid of the fat and layed off a few thousand workers which Walker has said he didn't want to do. But now that this is passed, I can almost guarantee that will be next. I would say within 8 weeks the layoff's will start. The thing that grinds me about this is they are just going to piss this money away and its not going to be put back in the WI economy.

 

[Rage9]

I never said democracy wasn't served. It absolutely was. This whole thing is way bigger than "teachers" and its going to have a negative impact. There is so much government fat and waste and these employees are a major problem. They could have just as easily gotten rid of the fat and layed off a few thousand workers which Walker has said he didn't want to do. But now that this is passed, I can almost guarantee that will be next. I would say within 8 weeks the layoff's will start. The thing that grinds me about this is they are just going to piss this money away and its not going to be put back in the WI economy.

It wasn't directed all at you, just at the load others out there.

Anyways the bill just passed and will be on Walkers desk within a few hours.