Get your kids vaccinated.

[Meatytreats]

I should get my wife in here (or not), she's better able to articulate this subject, as a pediatrician RN whose thesis in college was based on vaccinations and spent a great deal of time researching both sides.

Yes, please don't!

Any pediatrician RN with half a brain who has studied this in college would obviously know that getting a pertussis vaccination to prevent whooping cough is a FUCKING GREAT IDEA!

Especially for the parents of any newborn or anyone who is going to be in close contact with a child less than 6 months old!

:smilie_weihn_winki:

 

[dreamache]

Yes, please don't!

Any pediatrician RN with half a brain who has studied this in college would obviously know that getting a pertussis vaccination to prevent whooping cough is a FUCKING GREAT IDEA!

I know right? Especially one who graduated with a 4.0.

 

[thehobbster]

Some are likely not needed at all, like Swine flu and yearly flu shots here in 'murika... The latter seem to be a huge profit center for big pharma and likely kill 1000x more people than they save.

Coming from a family with 3 nurses, 2 anesthesiologists, 2 doctors, 1 high-level CDC worker, 1 doctor working in homeland security... All I hear is hospital and medical talk. Every day, every function, every email being passed around. This doesn't make me an authority at all. I ignore most of what's being said. But I'm exposed to it all. Some of you guys dismiss it because you don't know about it, plain and simple. You didn't hear about it, therefore it doesn't exist. Therefore money conspiracy.

In my own city, at just one of the local hospitals, my sister has already seen, treated, and had deaths related to bird flu, regular flu, and swine flu. And that's in a five mile radius of my house in one of the bigger cities of the south east.

I'm not seeing reports of flu vaccines having killed 20,000 people in my city, so I'm going to safely say that your numbers are ridiculous. Guess who the ones dying are? You guessed it...

This is just local stuff I'm hearing about. I hear about the global scale shit too. And it's safe to say that people are retarded and delusional and don't have the capacity of self-awareness and critical thinking. And that's why they aren't the authorities, but the idiots bucking against a system created to save their lives.

 

[IceToEskimos]

I'm not seeing reports of flu vaccines having killed 20,000 people in my city, so I'm going to safely say that your numbers are ridiculous. Guess who the ones dying are? You guessed it....

Not to be overly contrarian, but if the flu vaccine did result in somebody dying, wouldn't the cause of death be listed as influenza?

 

[Fatbat]

I know right? Especially one who graduated with a 4.0.

To bad common sense isn't affected by your GPA.

 

[dreamache]

Whattaya know, from today.

CDC Caught Hiding Data Showing Mercury in Vaccines Linked to Autism | Health Impact News

inb4 "not a major site."

Our buddy Ben Swann:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfqpZqEP6gg"]Truth In Media: Vaccine Court and Autism - YouTube[/ame]


Not everything is so black and white. This complete and utter trust in the medical industry is a bit laughable, especially here in the US with the amount of interventionism in just about every aspect of healthcare paralleled with how fucking unhealthy most people are.

 

[JakeStratham]

Here's a question for both sides in this fight...

Would you be okay with an environment in which property owners can refuse admission, service, etc. to anyone who was unable to show evidence that they were vaccinated for certain diseases?

If you don't vaccinate, that means you might be barred from select schools, movie theaters, banks, stores, airlines, and hospitals. If you do vaccinate, you could (presumably) gain entry to such places, and you'd be reasonably sure that those who don't vaccinate were barred from them.

The above assumes the eradication of rulers and their civil rights bullshit, so it's essentially a nonstarter. But I'd still be interested in your response.

Would this not present a viable solution, or at least one that is more amenable to forced vaccinations? It has the added benefit that it would exert social pressure upon some to surrender to vaccinations (for those of you who might place a value on such an outcome).

 

[dreamache]

Here's a question for both sides in this fight...

Would you be okay with an environment in which property owners can refuse admission, service, etc. to anyone who was unable to show evidence that they were vaccinated for certain diseases?

Yes.

What you'd see, if vaccinations were still a divisive issue, are certain businesses that would pop up which would allow entry by those who aren't vaccinated.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

Would you be okay with an environment in which property owners can refuse admission, service, etc. to anyone who was unable to show evidence that they were vaccinated for certain diseases?

They already do that in the US, don't they? Actually, I know they do, because I wasn't allowed to register for high school until I was able to show a measles vaccination certificate.

We didn't have it, so off we went home, phoning up he clinics and schools in Canada, trying to dig some record of my measles vaccination someone could fax us. Ended up being a lost cause, and I just went down to the clinic and got another measles shot, which surprisingly, the $750/month health care plan we were on didn't even cover -- we had to pay for it out of own pocket.

 

[kingofsp]

JakeStratham please stop making me question my foundational beliefs, it makes me uncomfortable. Please only discuss this topic within the social boundaries we have been conditioned to accept our entire lives.

 

[JakeStratham]

They already do that in the US, don't they? Actually, I know they do...

Not exactly. There are numerous factors that complicate the issue, such as taxation and legislation forcing property owners to cater to individuals they might otherwise avoid.

Those two issues alone generate a tremendous ripple effect that dissuades people from assuming responsibility for their actions. At the very least, those issues heavily influence their decisions.

 

[emp]

More...

Whooping cough deaths had been on a decreasing trend way before vaccination.

Pertussis (Whooping Cough) | Australian Vaccination Network, Inc

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactually...

“Vaccines didn’t save us” (a.k.a. “vaccines don’t work”): Intellectual dishonesty at its most naked « Science-Based Medicine

::emp::

 

[robbie222]

More...

Whooping cough deaths had been on a decreasing trend way before vaccination.

Pertussis (Whooping Cough) | Australian Vaccination Network, Inc

I think most would agree the death rates are going to decline due to medical advances over time and not necessarily contributed to the vaccine. Problem is when you catch small pox or the measles they can have long-term health effects. It's not like catching a cold or the flu. Those diseases are highly contagious, deadly and the sad thing is they can easily be prevented with vaccinations that work.

 

[SeoReborn]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaactually...

“Vaccines didn’t save us” (a.k.a. “vaccines don’t work”): Intellectual dishonesty at its most naked « Science-Based Medicine

::emp::

So where in this article that it talks about whooping cough. The graphs I can see is about measles.

That article still go on about trends and graphs. That is the reason I put the graph on this thread in the first place because pro-vaccinators loves using time graphs to show correlations. However most of us know correlation != causation, even pro-vaccinators. Yet when it comes to vaccination, they take correlation = causation.

Pro-vacinators also loves to talk about science, that those who decide not to vaccinate knows nothing about science. Unfortunately time and time again, I see the very same people that claims this has no idea what scientific theory vs reality is. Through all of their argument including those in this thread, I have not seen one that has demonstrated verification via scientific method. Again and again its the same fallacies, rhetoric and ad hominem attacks.

 

[emp]

SeoReborn.. you are thick, aren't you.

Different disease/vaccine, same stupid lie using graphs.

Of course the deaths were going down before that - geezes we are talkin 1870 to 1975 here .. medical science was advancing in leaps and bounds all over the place.

This meant that it was possible to keep more kids alive - kids were getting stronger at the same time, due to better nutrition, early child care, general hygiene improvements, etc..

All that does not eradicate the disease, though. And honestly, that looks like 15 deaths per 100,000 people, or, at around 1940.

At roughly 7 million, that would be 1050 people dead.

That's a small town.

Also... just because a graph is trending somewhere, doesn't mean you can take some variable out of the equation and it still goes to 0.

Somewhere in the graph is things like "doctors agree to wash their hands before seeing another patient", or "clean water is kinda important", "let's not lump kids with whooping cough together, shall we?" ... none of these are solely responsible for the decline, and removing any one would change the graph.

The killer for diseases such as these is vaccination.

Again: We have the opportunity to completely eradicate diseases from the planet. After that, no one needs to be vaccinated anymore, because the disease is GONE.

And yes, some diseases are virtually gone today without vaccination, just by hygiene, etc..

BUT

You guys are looking at mortality rates. Yeah, let's keep a kid paralyzed by Polio alive.. much fun is gonna be had.

And if you get a hard on about Pertussis:

Genomics, Medicine, and Pseudoscience: Whooping cough in California: deaths caused by the anti-vaccination movement

::emp::

 

[clear]

Vaccines are good.
A vaccine is a biological preparation that improves immunity to a particular disease.

Big Pharma is Bad.
Big Government is Bad.

I dont trust big pharma and government being in bed together and injecting people with the possibility of secret ingredients.

Sadly when I do have kids I dont believe I will have any other choice but to use big pharma vaccinations for my kids.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

The problem with many pro-vaccinators are that they are claiming along the lines that vaccinations saved us all, and without vaccinations we would still be dying left right and center from all these diseases. Not only that, they love using graphs to show this case, subscribing to correlation = causation.

Well, why don't we just start debating whether or not evolution is real, or if God created the world in 6 days. That's about as intelligent as debating whether or not vaccinations are important.

 

[robbie222]

The problem with many pro-vaccinators are that they are claiming along the lines that vaccinations saved us all, and without vaccinations we would still be dying left right and center from all these diseases. Not only that, they love using graphs to show this case, subscribing to correlation = causation.

The same could be said for the anti-vaccination crowd. They love to run around claiming the mortality rate was already declining for many of these diseases (duh, no shit / medical advances anyone?) yet totally ignoring these diseases were pretty much eradicated, thanks to vaccines :liebe028:


That's great and all that the death rate for small pox was in decline, but do you really want to catch this shit?

How about a little polio?

 

[mituozo]

https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_specter_the_danger_of_science_denial summarises my opinion on this topic, and most the other "anti-science" threads that seem to crop up in STS time and time again much more eloquently than I ever could. At least watch from 10 mins onwards before replying to earlier parts in the video, incidentally.

 

[Kiopa_Matt]

See, here's what happens when you don't get your kids vaccinated:

Fraser Valley measles outbreak reaches Metro Vancouver campus - British Columbia - CBC News

Health officials had virtually eradicated measles from Canada, but the highly-contagious disease is making a resurgence.