I hate to say it but...(Newt/RP)

cheeseman said:
lukep/guerilla. just out of curiosity, have most of the arguments you've encountered against libertarianism looked like this? http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html
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Wow what a misguided individual with way too much time on his hands!

I couldn't read any further than: " The foremost defenders of our freedoms and rights, which libertarians prefer you overlook, are our governments"...

Tears started to form, halfway in laughter but also halfway im true sadness as I realized that it's possible to learn that much about the cause and yet still be so naive about the world we live in..
 


lukep said:
Wow what a misguided individual with way too much time on his hands!

I couldn't read any further than: " The foremost defenders of our freedoms and rights, which libertarians prefer you overlook, are our governments"...

Tears started to form, halfway in laughter but also halfway im true sadness as I realized that it's possible to learn that much about the cause and yet still be so naive about the world we live in..
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It's sad. Unfortunately, there's no way to get through to those people, and many people believe that..

PS. To the guy looking for books, the Literature section at Mises is awesome: http://mises.org/Literature . I just bought a Kindle pretty much for the sole purpose of taking advantage of it. I currently have about 25 (free) books to read.
 
^Really? They must have spent hundreds of hours writing that 'joke.' -Are you sure it wasn't at least started by someone with a hatred of libertarianism and made funnier later?

Another thought is that it could be a giant set of reverse-libertarian-promotional material... i.e. a true libertarian could have thought that presenting it as anti-libertarian with gaping holes in it like the one above might grab skeptics from google and convince these readers to actually become libertarian even if they arrived to find ammo against us... Not a bad idea, that.
 
lukep said:
Since we aren't starting from scratch and don't want to start a civil war or watch thousands go die in the street painfully, obviously there must be a transitional period.
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In effect, this is all I've been arguing this entire time. Ron Paul will most likely not be our next President, so realistically what is the next major step for the grassroots movement? To start the transition.

Taxes will not go from 50% to 0% in a term. Welfare will not be completely cut off in a term (or two). What we should realistically fight for right now is to begin this "transitional phase" by lowering taxes to a much lower rate as well as giving welfare major reforms. You can still fight for the principles while being realistic about the policies.

If that process goes through successfully, we'll be much more capitalistic and have a healthier economy. When that happens, it will make sense to people that taxes and welfare should be eliminated altogether.
 
So you did all of that arguing because you couldn't conceive my point including an a transitional period? Hmm. Seems like a given to me.

The problem with phasing down things like taxes and welfare over the long term is two fold:

Firstly, of course, the different politicians during that time period will have different ideas about how to achieve those ends. (Or if they still want to.) So you can't count on them to continue the plan.

Secondly, the major need here is to get the education out FIRST. All americans need to know why welfare is bad, why it __IS__ coming to an end in the year 201X, and then start ASAP training for their new jobs which are now in progress of being created. -These are big, resource-heavy plans, and all need to be put in place well before the end of the transition.

So honestly, I can't see it happening without a rallying figure like Paul to bring it in and force it to happen during his term.

Just starting to lower taxes gradually without spending the big bucks on education and awareness ignores the bulk of the problem and worse, sends out the message that it's business as usual... Taxes go down a bit, you know, like when a republican takes office... Same shit different day.

You can't solve it that way. Christ himself couldn't.
 
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