Ron Paul preparing to endorse Mitt Romney

[guerilla]

If the elite can count on that percentage day in and day out then so can everyone else, including you and every other ancap who prefers complete disassociation from the state. I don't see that changing any time soon. Maybe I'm wrong. In any case I might venture that you have a long, slow, grinding road ahead of you without infiltrating the system and beating its operatives at their own game.

Give me credit for playing chess, not checkers. The future belongs to anarchy the same way the future belonged to race and sex equality 300 years ago.

Humanity will get there at the right time. When they are ready. We can educate people, but critical mass is something that can't be forced.

Not saying you're wrong and it can't be done from without - it can and history has shown that - just saying ancaps holding office is healthy for the ancap cause. Hell it's healthy for everyone.

Would another fifty ron paul types and hard core ancaps in congressional elections and a few hundred more scattered through state governments be more likely to hinder or help the long term goals of anarchocapitalism?

Anarcho-capitalists reject violence, and so reject the state. It's like asking a straight man to have gay sex. It ain't sexy.

Ancapism is the [sic] political philosophy of the market not government.

The people attracted to changing government, by default, must be people who believe in government. You can't be a congressman without participating in the bullying, destruction and theft that goes with the job. No matter how noble what is in your heart, if you hurt people, that's not kosher.

Thank you for clarifying this for me :thumbsup:

It's true. Or they are nuts. The sad thing, is that even Marxist economics professors understand market economics better than the US government.

 

[MSTeacher]

Give me credit for playing chess, not checkers. The future belongs to anarchy the same way the future belonged to race and sex equality 300 years ago.

Humanity will get there at the right time. When they are ready. We can educate people, but critical mass is something that can't be forced.

Time will tell, but duly noted and I agree that humanity is not capable of sustaining anarchy at the moment and won't be until a drastic change in the nature of the species comes to pass. Which may include a drastic reduction in our numbers. Or aliens.

As for forcing a critical mass, well, it can't be forced but it can certainly be expedited.

The people attracted to changing government, by default, must be people who believe in government.

All I'm saying is that the people attracted to eliminating government may benefit their cause by working from within it.

You can't be a congressman without participating in the bullying, destruction and theft that goes with the job. No matter how noble what is in your heart, if you hurt people, that's not kosher.

Agreed, but I think you'd agree that it's not so black and white, or at least the question can be weighed more holistically. I'm not going to focus my scorn on a politician whose voting record is pro liberty, pro gun, anti police state, anti war, pro business etc. just because they're working inside of a genocidal system.

And at the end of the day I'll respect the perspective of anyone in office whose primary goal is the elimination of the current government of the United States of America, even if they don't want a government to replace it. Gubmint or not all I care about is a sound program to make living standards increase, lifespans increase, education increase, stress decrease, violence decrease, pollution decrease, etc for the most amount of people in the most sustainable manner possible. Those are the ends of social and economic leadership to me and I don't give a rat's ass how they're achieved.

 

[Moxie]

Ron Paul is a Voluntarist - YouTube

In part of that video it looks like he is wearing a Texas tie. Now he might say that it is a tribute to the people who have lived in the land area referred to as Texas.

Still though, what is Texas? The word itself has Spanish origins and Spain was the first European country to take over that area of land, which isn't a very voluntarist thing to do. We're not talking about Spanish people homesteading in open areas, but instead about the Spanish government claiming authority over hundreds of miles of land.

Since that time different governments have always controlled Texas to one degree or another, not voluntary communities.

 

[guerilla]

Time will tell, but duly noted and I agree that humanity is not capable of sustaining anarchy at the moment and won't be until a drastic change in the nature of the species comes to pass. Which may include a drastic reduction in our numbers. Or aliens.

I think that better information and a more transparent globally social culture will be big for socializing. Maybe not for another generation or two though.

As for forcing a critical mass, well, it can't be forced but it can certainly be expedited.

I'm of a slightly different opinion. Where I feel we can focus is on refining and delivering good ideas. Do the groundwork for the next wave so to speak. It's not glamorous, like playing offense line isn't sexy, but it wins games.

All I'm saying is that the people attracted to eliminatinag government may benefit their cause by working from within it.

My take is different. We need something in lieu of government. That's the market. So it's important to me that we spend less time making politicians, and more time working on market institutions which can replace state institutions. Or again, laying the groundwork for the people who will do that.

I'm not going to focus my scorn on a politician whose voting record is pro liberty, pro gun, anti police state, anti war, pro business etc. just because they're working inside of a genocidal system.

Fair enough. Scorn is pointless anyway. I just prefer to engage with people with a market perspective, rather than a power perspective.

Gubmint or not all I care about is a sound program to make living standards increase, lifespans increase, education increase, stress decrease, violence decrease, pollution decrease, etc for the most amount of people in the most sustainable manner possible. Those are the ends of social and economic leadership to me and I don't give a rat's ass how they're achieved.

I hope you mean you don't care how they are achieved as long as it isn't through violence.

 

[scottspfd82]

I'm of a slightly different opinion. Where I feel we can focus is on refining and delivering good ideas. Do the groundwork for the next wave so to speak. It's not glamorous, like playing offense line isn't sexy, but it wins games.

Do you think we could see a stateless society in our lifetime? In the next 10 years? (I think we *possibly* could that fast, I won't get into why or how right now though).

I hope you mean you don't care how they are achieved as long as it isn't through violence.

There will be. Even if the state collapses peacefully, there'd be power grabs, probably militant groups, etc. Violence, at least defensively, I think would be unavoidable.

 

[Napolean]

 

[Napolean]

Do you think we could see a stateless society in our lifetime? In the next 10 years? (I think we *possibly* could that fast, I won't get into why or how right now though).

People use to ask the same thing about the Berlin wall, and the response was usually pessimistic. I think I may be in a minority believing that it will happen soon, and will happen fast.

 

[guerilla]

Do you think we could see a stateless society in our lifetime? In the next 10 years? (I think we *possibly* could that fast, I won't get into why or how right now though).

I don't think so. People love government.

 

[wayn3]

He would certainly slow the train down, although he wouldn't have the power to remove the train totally from the tracks...

Am I crazy for wanting the train slowed down?

youre crazy for picking slow death over trying to get off the train. whats this sorry excuse of a race that once raised to the top of the food chain? young men in the prime of their life following arbitrary rules created by old men who should be long gone. you could as well be dead.

i slowly come to the conclusion that the jersey shore crowd has an edge over you. like it or not, they abuse the system and do nothing but procreate. people love that shit because theyd love to be able to live like that. but they cant liberate their minds. they just dont have the balls. rather work the plumbing job. maybe they are pieces of shit by societies standards. so what? society is only there to hold you back. like the people on this board who make a sport out of telling everyone that they dont even have a cv. how badass. you dont have file on your computer talking about your "accomplishments". that must be huge. sick courage bro.

 

[theunicorn]

the libertarian reality Ron Paul Admits He's On Social Security, Even Though He Believes It's Unconstitutional

 

[guerilla]

the libertarian reality Ron Paul Admits He's On Social Security, Even Though He Believes It's Unconstitutional

That has nothing to do with libertarianism, any more than anything Barack Obama does has anything to do with being an American.

Identity politics is for small minds. Strive to be better.

 

[scottspfd82]

I don't think so. People love government.

Eh, I see what you mean but not sure I agree 100%. I'd say many people are patriotic. I think they've been indoctrinated to "accept" government as part of life. And only because they believe that there's no alternative. I'd say most people despise government. I know the majority of people I know do, now more so than ever.

On the other hand seeds have already been planted and information/ideas are easier to spread and share infinitely faster than ever before. I don't know, I'm optimistic. I think more people will wake up as the state continues down the destructive path it's on.

Here's hoping anyway.

 

[crackp0t]

the libertarian reality Ron Paul Admits He's On Social Security, Even Though He Believes It's Unconstitutional

He has to pay regardless of how he feels about it so why shouldn't he get back part of what he's paid in? He pays in (yes still pays) more than he receives. This is a non-issue.

 

[guerilla]

Eh, I see what you mean but not sure I agree 100%. I'd say many people are patriotic.

Patriotism is based around national identity and the state.

I'd say most people despise government. I know the majority of people I know do, now more so than ever.

But statistics show, people who say they oppose government, and government programs (specifically CONservatives on welfare and Democrats on war) usually end up being the biggest cheerleaders of those programs.

I don't know, I'm optimistic. I think more people will wake up as the state continues down the destructive path it's on.

I am optimistic too, but I am not going to get too far ahead of things.

Besides, there is a lot of work to do.

 

[scottspfd82]

the libertarian reality Ron Paul Admits He's On Social Security, Even Though He Believes It's Unconstitutional

1. It's his money, he paid in his entire life. It's not our money. It's not the governments money. It's HIS money that he was forced to pay in.

2. "He still pays more into Social Security than he gets in his checks." You forgot that part.

3. He doesn't think those who've paid there whole lives shouldn't be able to collect it. He thinks it's unconstitutional that we're forced to pay into it.

I haven't seen a single post from you that's not negative or flat-out retarded. You hate Ron Paul. Good for you. Do you like being forced to pay for shit that you don't want to? What's your solution? You think everything is fine the way it is? I for one don't like being forced to support a mass murdering, thieving and morally bankrupt Government. Let's hear your ideas for a better tomorrow.

 

[scottspfd82]

Patriotism is based around national identity and the state.

Yep, and a lifetime of indoctrination. I probably shouldn't have picked that word, regardless, people are patriotic because they want freedom, they want what's best for their country (their community) but most (in the US) are disgusted with the state right now.

Ask any vet who served and recently got out how he feels about foreign policy (the majority know how stupid these wars are and the true cost of them).

Ask anyone at tax time if they'd cut that check if given the choice. The state is quickly losing popularity.

But statistics show, people who say they oppose government, and government programs (specifically CONservatives on welfare and Democrats on war) usually end up being the biggest cheerleaders of those programs.

I'd say that's true of politicians. People on welfare will always be in favor of welfare. Wars are becoming VERY unpopular with the public.

I am optimistic too, but I am not going to get too far ahead of things.

Life's more fun as an optimist Worst case, you lay the groundwork for the future.

Besides, there is a lot of work to do.

Funny that you mention that. I'd like to talk to you about something, I get the feeling you'd be interested. I'll PM you soon.

 

[JakeStratham]

the libertarian reality Ron Paul Admits He's On Social Security, Even Though He Believes It's Unconstitutional

Being an anarchist requires radical thinking.

I suspect from your other posts that you presume Ron Paul, in receiving Social Security, is demonstrating greed - specifically, greed that is inconsistent with the libertarian position. If I have pegged you correctly, you either misunderstand the anarchist's pursuit of weakening the state, or have chosen to ignore it.

I cannot speak for Ron Paul, but I will speak for myself...

The monies controlled by the state are ill-gotten resources. They were confiscated via outright violence, or the threat of such. Given the opportunity to wrest control of such resources from the state, I will do so.

- I will accept tax refunds.
- I will accept Social Security checks.
- If the state sends me a $100,000 check for being awesome, I will accept it.

A dollar ripped away from the state is a dollar put to better use, even if it is burned to a crisp.

I would love to dismantle the Fed and every other state-sponsored agency of thuggery. But in the meantime, I will take every opportunity to wrest resources away from state control. It does not matter if those resources were originally confiscated from me, my great grandparents, or your brother. To rebuff the offer of such resources is, in effect, to strengthen the state.

That is unacceptable to me.

 

[lukep]

youre crazy for picking slow death over trying to get off the train.

The scale of time in these metaphors are wrong though... The reality of our situation is that bringing about anarchy (Getting off the train) takes centuries...

In reality, my "slow death" makes my own life much longer and far, far more comfortable.

i slowly come to the conclusion that the jersey shore crowd has an edge over you.

Awesome evidence that shows why I choose that "Slow death..." How could Voluntaryism ever really flourish in that mess?

...like the people on this board who make a sport out of telling everyone that they dont even have a cv. how badass. you dont have file on your computer talking about your "accomplishments". that must be huge. sick courage bro.

You PMSing today bro? I just pointed out the obvious reason of why its' not desirable to have one... No one else seemed willing to point that out... How does this make me in the same league with the Jersey shore crowd?

 

[MSTeacher]

- If the state sends me a $100,000 check for being awesome, I will accept it.

If? I get these every month. Don't you?

 

[Moxie]

A dollar ripped away from the state is a dollar put to better use, even if it is burned to a crisp.

I would love to dismantle the Fed and every other state-sponsored agency of thuggery. But in the meantime, I will take every opportunity to wrest resources away from state control. It does not matter if those resources were originally confiscated from me, my great grandparents, or your brother. To rebuff the offer of such resources is, in effect, to strengthen the state.

Yeah but the more the state spends, the more they tend to confiscate, if not in the present then in the future.

Free health care, college, houses and cars for everyone = tax increases, taking resources from other nations, etc.


Ron Paul returns over $140,000 to the U.S. Treasury | Peace . Gold . Liberty | Ron Paul 2012

Rand Paul returning $500K in office budget to Treasury - POLITICO.com