Russian Army Invades Ukraine And Seizes Crimea

Why is the media still harping on about this? Russia is still in full accordance with international law. They're allowed 25,000 soldiers in Crimea, and have yet to show any signs of aggression towards the rest of Ukraine.

Geez, the West sure gets pissy when they don't get their own way.
 


Why is the media still harping on about this? Russia is still in full accordance with international law. They're allowed 25,000 soldiers in Crimea, and have yet to show any signs of aggression towards the rest of Ukraine.

Geez, the West sure gets pissy when they don't get their own way.
^ you have NO fucking idea what you are talking about. It's not about the west or east or any other abstract mumbo jumbo that you read in First World Sceptic Daily.

It's about a shithole size of a continent with bad roads, awful life quality, extreme corruption, censorship, no working mail service, full of bureaucrats and thieves. A shithole where the majority of population is at the same time absolutely sure of the nation's "divine mission" and superiority, extremely aggressive and chauvinistic towards practically EACH neighboring country. The people are so brainwashed in fact, that even after they FLEE the shithole and emigrate to a country with working laws and opportunities, they proudly post absurd shit like backflip knife-throwing soldiers or military choirs covering western pop songs, probably implying that Russia is great because of that.

It's about all that shit exploding into a lot of blood one day, sooner or later, and recent events hint that it will really be sooner. The Western powers would much rather have a quiet buffer zone in the Ukraine, well bummer, Ukrainians are a nation with balls.

Look at the Russian news broadcast from today saying they will turn the USA into radioactive dust

1071235.jpg


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teZZMrnWUNw"]ÐGAYоÑ�Ñ�иÑ� может превратить СШÐ� в пепел, ВеÑ�ти недели, Дмитрий КиÑ�елев, 16 марта 2014 - YouTube[/ame]

look at the putin supporters marching yesterday in moscow

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5DqCnwMhY"]По�троение активи�тов Сути Времени - YouTube[/ame]

finally, look at imbecile putin admirers on this forum that respect him because he cheated on his wife or flew in a fighter jet. What a great way to analyze politics.

yes Iamabitmad.jpg and I am out of this gay thread, a world war is about to start in my region, excuse me.

X84nn.gif
 
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I have to wonder how this entire situation would play out if we had a president with a strict foreign policy.
 
^ you have NO fucking idea what you are talking about. It's not about the west or east or any other abstract mumbo jumbo that you read in First World Sceptic Daily.

It's about a shithole size of a continent with bad roads, awful life quality, extreme corruption, censorship, no working mail service, full of bureaucrats and thieves. A shithole where the majority of population is at the same time absolutely sure of the nation's "divine mission" and superiority, extremely aggressive and chauvinistic towards practically EACH neighboring country. The people are so brainwashed in fact, that even after they FLEE the shithole and emigrate to a country with working laws and opportunities, they proudly post absurd shit like backflip knife-throwing soldiers or military choirs covering western pop songs, probably implying that Russia is great because of that.

It's about all that shit exploding into a lot of blood one day, sooner or later, and recent events hint that it will really be sooner. The Western powers would much rather have a quiet buffer zone in the Ukraine, well bummer, Ukrainians are a nation with balls.

Look at the Russian news broadcast from today saying they will turn the USA into radioactive dust

1071235.jpg


ÐGAYоÑ�Ñ�иÑ� может превратить СШÐ� в пепел, ВеÑ�ти недели, Дмитрий КиÑ�елев, 16 марта 2014 - YouTube

look at the putin supporters marching yesterday in moscow

По�троение активи�тов Сути Времени - YouTube

finally, look at imbecile putin admirers on this forum that respect him because he cheated on his wife or flew in a fighter jet. What a great way to analyze politics.

yes Iamabitmad.jpg and I am out of this gay thread, a world war is about to start in my region, excuse me.

X84nn.gif



ahhhh jesus, finally someone who has a clue.
 
Look at the Russian news broadcast from today saying they will turn the USA into radioactive dust

Ohhh fuck, Russia is not about to turn the US into "radioactive dust". Trust me.

a world war is about to start in my region, excuse me.

No, for fuck sakes, a world war isn't going to break out. Why not wait until Russia at least violates international law?
 
Why is the media still harping on about this? Russia is still in full accordance with international law. They're allowed 25,000 soldiers in Crimea, and have yet to show any signs of aggression towards the rest of Ukraine.

Geez, the West sure gets pissy when they don't get their own way.

You must be senile. Surely it's okay for a portion of a sovereign country to declare they no longer wish to be a part of that country anymore, vote to secede, and then take not only their bodies but the land and resources they live on with them to that country? Hell. Fucking. No. Why should Ukraine just allow for Crimea to secede and give up that very key piece of land? How is this any different if myself, the block I live on, or even the city I live in decides we don't want to be a part of the US anymore and want to join China? But oh, we're also taking the land we live on and the resources that land provides us with us to China too. The fuck? If they don't want to be a part of Ukraine anymore, move to fucking Russia! Couple all of the above with the fact that Ukraine was invaded militarily, there is militant fear pushing along the secession process, etc and you've got a cocktail of bullshit from Russia. I hope this is very clear for you.
 
Surely it's okay for a portion of a sovereign country to declare they no longer wish to be a part of that country anymore, vote to secede, and then take not only their bodies but the land and resources they live on with them to that country?

Ummm, yeah. The former Czechoslovkia is an example. It's two countries now. For another example, Quebec has had several referendums in the past deciding whether or not they want to separate from Canada. The people always chose to stay with Canada, but I'm sure if the vote went the other way, Quebec would be a separate nation, and Canada would just have to suck it up and live with it.

What's bad is NOT allowing regions to secede. See Tibet for an example. Besides, isn't always the US on the world stage harping on about freedom, and letting the people decide their own future and destiny? So it's great when Libya and Egypt do it, but Crimea isn't allowed to?


Couple all of the above with the fact that Ukraine was invaded militarily

No, they weren't. Well, ok, they were -- but technically Russia is allowed 25,000 soldiers in Crimea. I don't think that means, "come in and seize our military bases", but nonetheless...
 
Ummm, yeah. The former Czechoslovkia is an example. It's two countries now. For another example, Quebec has had several referendums in the past deciding whether or not they want to separate from Canada. The people always chose to stay with Canada, but I'm sure if the vote went the other way, Quebec would be a separate nation, and Canada would just have to suck it up and live with it.

You are talking about people freely deciding among themselves whether to stay together or move apart.

That's not the case here. Many of the Russians living in Crimea do not have Ukranian passports - they have Russian passports. They've moved into the area. Then their govt has sent troops into the area. And Crimea was forced to conduct a vote with the foreign troops on their soil menacingly asking them to vote to become another country.

It's equivalent to American troops moving into Quebec and then the Quebecois holding a vote to join the USA as a result. Would you really regard that vote as an honest vote?

An example from history - the Anschluss, where the Germans marched into Austria, annexed it claiming that the Austrians wanted to be part of Greater Germany and held a referendum to "prove" it. That vote was won with 98.9% voting "yes".

Not that different to teh Crimean vote of 95.6% voting yes to join Russia.

Where do you get unanimous votes like that, outside of places where people are menaced into how they should vote?

Can you seriously imagine those pesky Quebecois voting 95% to agree on anything, even the price of bread?

Of course not. It wouldn't be normal. Even in tiny council wards you don't get a 95% vote. Unanimity is not normal. Alarm bells should be ringing out in your head, and yet you are reacting almost like people in the 1930's did to the Anschloss.

Once this kind of thing is allowed, where does it end? Should China claim Taiwan back? Should they claim Siberia back (It was theirs before 1860)? Should Mexico claim Texas and California?

And Putin has broken an international treaty - Russia signed a treaty in 1994 that they would respect Ukraine's sovereignty, and they haven't.
 
You are talking about people freely deciding among themselves whether to stay together or move apart.

That's not the case here. Many of the Russians living in Crimea do not have Ukranian passports - they have Russian passports. They've moved into the area. Then their govt has sent troops into the area. And Crimea was forced to conduct a vote with the foreign troops on their soil menacingly asking them to vote to become another country.

It's equivalent to American troops moving into Quebec and then the Quebecois holding a vote to join the USA as a result. Would you really regard that vote as an honest vote?

An example from history - the Anschluss, where the Germans marched into Austria, annexed it claiming that the Austrians wanted to be part of Greater Germany and held a referendum to "prove" it. That vote was won with 98.9% voting "yes".

Not that different to teh Crimean vote of 95.6% voting yes to join Russia.

Where do you get unanimous votes like that, outside of places where people are menaced into how they should vote?

Can you seriously imagine those pesky Quebecois voting 95% to agree on anything, even the price of bread?

Of course not. It wouldn't be normal. Even in tiny council wards you don't get a 95% vote. Unanimity is not normal. Alarm bells should be ringing out in your head, and yet you are reacting almost like people in the 1930's did to the Anschloss.

Once this kind of thing is allowed, where does it end? Should China claim Taiwan back? Should they claim Siberia back (It was theirs before 1860)? Should Mexico claim Texas and California?

And Putin has broken an international treaty - Russia signed a treaty in 1994 that they would respect Ukraine's sovereignty, and they haven't.

word.
 
You are talking about people freely deciding among themselves whether to stay together or move apart.

That's not the case here. Many of the Russians living in Crimea do not have Ukranian passports - they have Russian passports. They've moved into the area. Then their govt has sent troops into the area. And Crimea was forced to conduct a vote with the foreign troops on their soil menacingly asking them to vote to become another country.

More than likely, the vote would have went pro-Russia regardless if the Russian military was currently in Crimea or not, correct? Granted, Russia made SURE the vote went their way, which isn't right. Nonetheless, even if the vote was "free & fair", it most likely would have went pro-Russia, correct?

Notice how the US, EU and NATO are all up in arms, but the UN seems to be quite silent on the subject?
 
More than likely, the vote would have went pro-Russia regardless if the Russian military was currently in Crimea or not, correct? Granted, Russia made SURE the vote went their way, which isn't right. Nonetheless, even if the vote was "free & fair", it most likely wouldn't have went pro-Russia, correct?

Notice how the US, EU and NATO are all up in arms, but the UN seems to be quite silent on the subject?

Who cares about the outcome of the vote lol. You can't lay claim to something that is not yours simply because the majority occupies it. I guess that means that every country would lend itself to being seceded since it's very common for certain regions to be predominantly occupied by one race or group of people from another country. Regardless of whether Russia had military presence or not, Ukraine is a sovereign nation who cannot simply have a chunk of their land and resources taken away from them by the people who they so generously provide for.
 
Who cares about the outcome of the vote lol.

Huh?

I guess that means that every country would lend itself to being seceded

Yep, exactly. Every region of the world is more than welcome to secede from its country if they so desire, assuming they have the military strength to back it up, which Crimea does have in this case.


Ukraine is a sovereign nation who cannot simply have a chunk of their land and resources taken away from them by the people who they so generously provide for.

Well, it just happened. If the Ukraine wants Crimea back, they can fight Russia for it. Same as if Mexico wants Texas back, they can fight the US for it.

Besides, Crimea was basically already Russian anyway, so it's not like there's some massive change happening here. Instead of Crimea being ruled by Russia via proxy, they're now a part of Russia.
 
More than likely, the vote would have went pro-Russia regardless if the Russian military was currently in Crimea or not, correct? Granted, Russia made SURE the vote went their way, which isn't right. Nonetheless, even if the vote was "free & fair", it most likely would have went pro-Russia, correct?

Notice how the US, EU and NATO are all up in arms, but the UN seems to be quite silent on the subject?

There wouldn't have been a vote at all in Crimea if the Russians hadn't invaded - they hadn't been agitating for it at all. It never came up once! Note too that Crimea is the homeland of the Tartars who wanted very badly to remain with Ukraine.

This whole thing was triggered by the EU offering Ukraine a trade deal and it was offered for positive reasons - we don't like poor countries on the borders because they cause illegal migration problems (desperate people migrate), so the idea was that the Ukraine could trade itself out of it's poverty. Since when is trade a crime? Only to a nut job like Putin. Seriously, do you believe that the EU shouldn't have offered trade to Ukraine, that we should have instead have built a wall and said, business is evil, no access to the market for you?

Also - just as the Russian population in Crimea is recent (only dating back about 60 years to when Stalin moved them there), the Russian population in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia is also similarly recent. About 10 years ago, nationalists in those countries were arguing against giving those ethnic Russians citizenship and in favour of expelling them. The EU said no, if they're born there, you can't expel, that's unfair, it's against their human rights. So they were given citizenship. But if having ethnic Russians in your country means that Russia invades, then the case for ethnic cleansing of those Russians suddenly becomes valid. Even though those Russians badly want to stay in the prosperous EU rather than be deported to the cesspit that is Russia.

Can you see the problems with your stance?

You've trained yourself to believe that the west is evil, and it's true there's plenty of room for improvement. But I don't understand this reflexive belief that you must then worship every single nutjob that the west objects to. Apply your critical faculties to the nutjobs as well.

As for the UN - of course there's been no response: duh! Russia is a member of the security council, and the other member, China, is loving this - The Putin doctrine is justification for China invading Taiwan, claiming islands from Japan and the Philippines and claiming Siberia. They're probably sat there thinking "What a fabulous nutjob Putin is, may he keep it up and gift us the oil fields of Siberia".