Suck a Dick Vivera/Opes/Mike/Mitch/DEE
- Thread starter mysticls
- Start date
I appreciate your post. (I always thought Dullspace was a fake poster) I wish i could give a definitive day that the rest of the payments would go out. My hope was Friday, Friday i was told the wire should hit this Monday ( i feel confident that it will). Once Opes gets caught up with us we will get caught up on the rest of pubs. I think there are a small handful of pubs this has effected, we have paid out weekly payments on non-opes money just not opes.
I guess in some way i want the advertiser to see how important it is for them to be timely on their payments, in the past everyone kept the leads flowing even if the advertisers were slow or behind, it left little incentive for the advertisers to live up to their end of the agreements, with the loss of traffic i think the advertiser now understands the impact timely payments and clear communication about what a valid lead has on their overall volume. Call it a crass course in what not to do in affiliate marketing.
I knew the moment we passed the scrubs and halted payments to publishers that threads like this would be started and overall volume would go down, just something else to read and be frustrated about, but in the big picture strategically it made sense for us to follow this path.
Also i wanted to say that i have heard from some people that Copeac is going under, this is far from the truth. We have been in business for over 11 years, we have been a part of each big niche online since 1999, from online credit reports, debt consolidation, mortgage, credit repair, email submits, ringtones, online dating and continuity Intermark has always commanded a large distribution network in each hot niche of the time. In November 2009 we started development of our own in-house tracking technology (due to beta in September), we have several new offers in new niches that we feel have the same potential Acai had in Oct 2008, and plan to stabilize and mature the continuity space just like the niches before it. The industry is at a turning point for sure, its turbulent times for publishers, and networks alike. I guess in a few months we will see who was able to survive and who wasnt.
The advertiser is basically telling you guys to "STOP RUNNING THE OFFERS". I don't know how hard to get that but unless you have a high ROI, it is not worth a damn to go through all the stress of dealing with chargebacks, non-payment, and finding out you are in negative ROI weeks later.
It is business. Mike is not going to eat all those loss for you guys especially at a time like this when all networks' revenue dropped dramatically from the heydays. The advertiser is the one being a complete douche bag so I don't know why you guys are taking it on Mike.
There will still be people running and profiting but you don't know what advantages they have over you. Maybe they are guaranteed payment or they have a really good relationship with dee's mafia crew.
It is business. Mike is not going to eat all those loss for you guys especially at a time like this when all networks' revenue dropped dramatically from the heydays. The advertiser is the one being a complete douche bag so I don't know why you guys are taking it on Mike.
There will still be people running and profiting but you don't know what advantages they have over you. Maybe they are guaranteed payment or they have a really good relationship with dee's mafia crew.
I see where some of you guys are going with defending Mike and so forth, especially since I have met some of you guys.
However, I have to take an opposing view on it. Ive seen threads here on WF where someone has suggested several times they would like to explore running their own aff network and the other network owners come out of the woodwork to say things like running a network is hard, we fight fraud, we make sure you get paid, we protect you, you dont understand the risks, etc
The reality is, when the FTC comes a knocking or you got a banging LP/method of promotion with an offer, some of them are all about giving up your info and such. Now its "i havent got paid so I cant pay you" type of issues and other types of foolishness. Its in most of their terms that they only pay you when they get paid, but they front otherwise to get you in their network.
Im not saying its Mike or Copeac, not at all. However, I have dealt with several well known networks where I have ran a "hot new offer" and didnt get paid because the advertiser didnt pay them, or had to eat costs because the advertisers backend wasnt set up right or wait weeks for payment when I was on weekly.
I've also had LP's and specific traffic methods stolen from me and given to other affiliates within a well known network as well.
You can say those were bad apples and I know where most of you will go with this, but the point is, if your not running something direct then you dont have much control when shit goes wrong or not in your favor and the chances of something fucking up can be a tad bit higher. The more cogs you have in the system, the better the chances of something fucking up.
There are some great network out there for sure, but at the end of the day you are running their terms and conditions, not yours.
However, I have to take an opposing view on it. Ive seen threads here on WF where someone has suggested several times they would like to explore running their own aff network and the other network owners come out of the woodwork to say things like running a network is hard, we fight fraud, we make sure you get paid, we protect you, you dont understand the risks, etc
The reality is, when the FTC comes a knocking or you got a banging LP/method of promotion with an offer, some of them are all about giving up your info and such. Now its "i havent got paid so I cant pay you" type of issues and other types of foolishness. Its in most of their terms that they only pay you when they get paid, but they front otherwise to get you in their network.
Im not saying its Mike or Copeac, not at all. However, I have dealt with several well known networks where I have ran a "hot new offer" and didnt get paid because the advertiser didnt pay them, or had to eat costs because the advertisers backend wasnt set up right or wait weeks for payment when I was on weekly.
I've also had LP's and specific traffic methods stolen from me and given to other affiliates within a well known network as well.
You can say those were bad apples and I know where most of you will go with this, but the point is, if your not running something direct then you dont have much control when shit goes wrong or not in your favor and the chances of something fucking up can be a tad bit higher. The more cogs you have in the system, the better the chances of something fucking up.
There are some great network out there for sure, but at the end of the day you are running their terms and conditions, not yours.
Why didn't you just cap the offers soon as they started to get behind on payments? That really seems like the very obvious thing to do that would allow you to keep paying affiliates and let the advertiser see that not paying the bills leads to less volume because you will only give them so much credit.
QFmotherfuckingT
This is not a c0p3ac slam ... it's the most common form of lying in this industry and it's 100% a front.
If you're not going to back the statement up, just tell the truth ... you'll at least gain respect for being honest.
lol why would you want them to cap the offers if everyone is gonna gonna get paid eventually. chillax brosefs
Cap it for normal payment terms and have AMs contact those that run volume to see if they want to keep running it on a different payment schedule.
The way this was handled it looks like Copeac was not comfortable extending any more credit to Opes, so they decided to knowingly force affiliates running the offer to extend some credit to Opes without sending out an email or anything. That's what happened right? Or am I missing something?
Hey Guys, Hell of a first post to make in a thread like this, but I've been following this forum for quiet some time and particularly this thread. I have and still do push some of these offers, but here is the part I'm having a very hard time understanding. The network is a middle man, they take a commission on each sale that we push. From what I've been told, their commission is a decent amount. If a company is taking a cut, they provide a service for that -- they take on the responsibility of making payments, they should essentially take on the responsibility of eating "duplicates". When these companies stop providing those services, what is it exactly that they're charging a commission for? When they start to pass all these delays and penalties, etc on to the publisher, what is it exactly that they're charging us for? What value do they add to the publisher for using them? While this is not intended to say any one network is better than the other because I do work with a bunch, just having a really hard time understanding what it is that these guys are taking a cut for when we pay for dupes and we get hit with delays when they do....
agreed, if these affiliate networks are not assuming risk as most of them stated that they did before all this rebill mess, they provide no value what so ever besides convenience...ie. running multiple offers and getting paid at one place. thats a pretty nice margin for convenience :2twocents:
good point...i believe they deserve some credit for providing the affiliate with the offer but other than that, you're exactly right dllama
^^^ This.
I have to agree with the posters above. If networks aren't going to protect affiliates from advertisers (and protect the advertisers from supershady affiliates) then what is the point of working with.through them rather than seeking out direct relationships? If we're going to risk getting fucked out of our money then we may as well be going direct and getting better payouts.
Good point Danc1122. Mike has spent plenty of time stating how he is eventually going to pay his affiliates. Hasn't answered any questions about his involvement with Brand Protection. Effectively Brand Protection Group was put in place to put the competition out of business. The effect of this was that it allowed companies like Opes to lower their CPA's from $45 to $35, and even lower because no other companies could process free trial orders (Side note: a lot of companies lost their processing naturally when VISA and MC changed their regulations. This is much more complicated than Brand Protection Group's involvement). A few legit companies did not lose their processing due to VISA and MC changes, they lost it because BPG made sure they did. This allowed Dee's companies to control the market.
The effect of this was also that other networks/affiliates besides CX, Copeac, and Epic, lost their direct offers and in many cases, if they were running Opes or Vivera offers, lost their receivable. This leaves an environment where Dee sponsored companies have a monopoly on the verticals they are in, they control the payout to affiliates, the methods of promotion, and they decide who gets paid and who doesn't.
Sounds like Mike is worried about getting his latest invoices paid. What about the millions of dollars owed to other companies who aren't part of the "in crowd"?
The only value a network has in this world is being a bank in the middle extending terms to advertisers, paying affiliates quickly to cover media costs, and managing the relationships in the middle.
Mike makes a post right before my analysis of his involvement in BPG stating, "I have always been paid by this advertiser." Now I can't figure out why is then delaying payments to affiliates unless he is concerned about not getting paid??? If he's concerned then everyone else in this world should be concerned.
The effect of this was also that other networks/affiliates besides CX, Copeac, and Epic, lost their direct offers and in many cases, if they were running Opes or Vivera offers, lost their receivable. This leaves an environment where Dee sponsored companies have a monopoly on the verticals they are in, they control the payout to affiliates, the methods of promotion, and they decide who gets paid and who doesn't.
Sounds like Mike is worried about getting his latest invoices paid. What about the millions of dollars owed to other companies who aren't part of the "in crowd"?
The only value a network has in this world is being a bank in the middle extending terms to advertisers, paying affiliates quickly to cover media costs, and managing the relationships in the middle.
Mike makes a post right before my analysis of his involvement in BPG stating, "I have always been paid by this advertiser." Now I can't figure out why is then delaying payments to affiliates unless he is concerned about not getting paid??? If he's concerned then everyone else in this world should be concerned.