Torture Doesn't Work - Now Get The Fuck Out.
- Thread starter nickycakes
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umm, how about the right to not be tortured? I don't know about you, but basic human rights are among those essential liberties in my book... and when you set a precedent by torturing terrorists, that can quickly snowball to domestic terrorists, then rioters and protesters, then anybody who disagrees or speaks out about the regime...
btw, I'm an ex-Marine and do have some knowledge about this subject... as has been correctly stated by others the most effective techniques are the psychological ones, the physical torture techniques aren't as productive and are often counterproductive...
also, you're an idiot if you believe press releases from the CIA... even back in the 1960's when the KUBARK manual was released, it was well known then that actual pain was not nearly as effective as psychological threats... and that was way back in the day when the CIA was still hooking people's balls up to electrodes... but hey maybe in the 50 years since then they somehow forgot what works?
personally, I think somebody just wanted to work these guys over and were using this as a means to justify it...
No. Remember some people want a civilized world. You have to make a sacrifice. Either you sacrifice freedom for security, or the other way around.
But if you do insist on torturing someone, why don't you volunteer yourself to harsh CIA interrogation and tell us what you think about it in about 4 years when they let you go.
Classic mind-control tactics. Stop trying to use the same lines here that the mind control experts at Fox use on you. They are more experts at it and they have a retarder audience than you have here.
No, not really. Because what-if game is one of the easiest way to try and sway the mindset of others. Now go back to watching Fox and let them cripple your mind even more.
Ugh. What if that American Life in LA is extremely hairy, fat and ugly. Again you are trying to bank on the fact that looks (or description thereof) influence the way we think of others.
In most cases those guys would try to take their revenge for your torture by giving more wrong information so that more damage is done. There are much more sophisticated methods to get a parrot to talk.
Not sure about West Point but IMA sure has a LOT of amazing things which are taught to the Cadets there. And yes, I am consistently amazed at the kind of things he keeps telling me about human behavior.
I have been exposed to enchanced interogation techniques and so have thousands of other Amercian military members. Sure it sucked but it was mostly a mind game. It sure wasn't the "tourture" that MSNBC and code pink make it out to be.
Nice. The old slippery slope logical fallacy. Oh noes! The evil Bush regime and Cheneymonster are coming to get us all for speaking truth to power!
Is it just me or is it strange how people can defend torture, especially people without trial?
Poto made a good point many of you upstanding government-trusting citizens would be blind to. When there are no more suspicious-looking Allah loving Arab men to torture, I would be afraid. Very afraid.
Poto made a good point many of you upstanding government-trusting citizens would be blind to. When there are no more suspicious-looking Allah loving Arab men to torture, I would be afraid. Very afraid.
you're far more likely to be tortured by your own government than any foreign power... it's not a logical fallacy when you have historical precedent supporting it...
as an example of a logical slippery slope argument, let's look at firearms registration... Hitler encouraged national firearms registration and later used that to confiscate civilian firearms, so it's not a logical fallacy to say that government firearms registration can lead to firearms confiscations, it's a historical precedent...
it's also not a logical fallacy to be concerned that the government torturing people could lead to the government torturing MORE people, especially when the people they have been torturing are labeled terrorists, which is a broad label that can be applied to a lot of people including anyone who dissents... understand?
Since when has all the liberal types gave a fuck about interogation techniques. I mean EVERY country in the world (including the US) have been using them forever.
The tactics we use today are nothing compared to the ones we used in WW2. You guys let the main stream media wind you up in a frenzy too much. No one (not you or top Democrats) gave a fuck about waterboarding after 911. Now that Move on and MSNBC have made waterboarding into a bumber sticker, all the kooks are comming from behind the rocks.
Allright fess up libbys, this is about Bush and Cheney, right. I mean you guys can't let those two spend the rest of their short days in peace...right.
The tactics we use today are nothing compared to the ones we used in WW2. You guys let the main stream media wind you up in a frenzy too much. No one (not you or top Democrats) gave a fuck about waterboarding after 911. Now that Move on and MSNBC have made waterboarding into a bumber sticker, all the kooks are comming from behind the rocks.
Allright fess up libbys, this is about Bush and Cheney, right. I mean you guys can't let those two spend the rest of their short days in peace...right.
Right - that explains why for the past 8 years, the U.S. government has been detaining innocent American citizens and torturing them ruthlessly...oh wait, they haven't.
No - instead what we have is hysteria from people like you who think psychological tactics qualify as 'torture' and somehow think the CIA is so incompetent they'll pick random people off the street to question. Have another blunt.
Uh oh. I am very well aware of what Psychological Tactics are used in interrogations (read my posts above as to what fuckin' qualifies to say that) and Waterboarding and other techniques which I have been hearing about CIA using don't surmount to Psychological Tactics. So stop trying to fuckin' twist the meaning of things.
And if you have no idea as to what can happen when an agency is given such powers, take a look at Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, China, Nepal and, unfortunately, even India.
I have no idea if you are really retarded or just try to increase the size of your e-Penis by trying to keep posting garbage but I'd certainly recommend that you take a look at the history for lessons.
Oh and I do suggest that you take a look at the history British Colonialism of India and Rise of Nazisim before you try to post more bullshit as to if people really think CIA (or any other intelligence agency in the world with such powers) is so incompetent they'll pick random people off the street to question.
Yes, we've all heard about how your father's in the Indian Intelligence or something. Forgive me if I don't consider him the pre-eminent authority on this subject. I'll leave that to, you know - the Director of National Intelligence or the Director of the CIA here in America. But you can believe whoever affirms your preconceived beliefs.
Take a deep breath. This is the kind of hysteria I'm talking about - comparing the U.S. to dictatorships like China, Egypt or Saudi Arabia.
Waterboarding, loud music, throwing them against flexible walls - none of this causes permanent physical damage. If the interrogating officers deem it necessary, they should have that option.
There is a rather angry vocal minority in this debate that sanctimoniously proclaims psychological tactics 'torture' in order to win the debate. Not too many people buy it. It speaks more to how easy they've had it in life when they consider rather mild practices that thousands of U.S. military members undergo 'torture' and verges on fullblown hysteria.
They just need to calm down and let the professionals do their job without kneecapping them or using ridiculously overblown rhetoric that is purely emotional.
You may or may not -- and I don't give a shit about what you think but I do trust his real life experience far more than what your "eminent authority" has to say about the subject on a public platform.
And since you mention about him being in Indian Intelligence, you clearly did not read my post. I'd recommend that you do scroll a page back and read that -- and about the kind of situation the Indian Army was handling at that time (Punjab Trauma).
That is ground enough for me to think you are completely clueless about what history has to teach and are only a sheeple to what Fox wants you to believe.
Listen genius, these states -- or even Nazi Germany -- weren't born as dictatorships, they slowly morphed into them. Pick up the history books and see how seemingly innocent steps, in the best interest of the state, led to such horrific and fucked-up situations.
Now you have no idea how much I would love to myself kill those mullahs or see them being burnt alive for killing hundreds of people of my country. In case you have no idea, during the Kargil war, one torture techique which Pakistan used on Indian Army's Captured Soldiers was to chop their penis in hundreds of pieces -- slowly.
However, I'd be VERY SCARED if Indian Agencies were officially given such powers and would protest it to no end.
Speaking of Nazi Germany, the Weimar Republic was a budding Democratic Republic before -wait for it- ... hyperinflation undermined their economy and Hitler stepped up to rescue the country.
History is fun!
Once they sign the Geneva Convention and agree to treat all prisoners fairly, then the US should be bound by those rules. Since the terrorists basically piss on the Geneva Convention, I could give a fuck about what happens to them. Why should I worry about if they get slapped too hard or if they are underwater for a few seconds when all they want to do is kill innocent people, including children. They are the cowards so fuck them.
Our soldiers and leaders are being indicted and interrogated over doing what they think is right. They are saving our asses. They are the ones putting their lives on the line for us and this is the thanks we give them. The US is becoming a nation of pussies and that is why Obama was elected. For fucks sake, after 9/11, EVERYONE said lets go get those bastards and no one cared what happened them. People loved that one country singers song because he said about kicking their ass because that is the American way. Obviously, it is not anymore. Lets make sure we are going after the right people. Our military is not doing the harm; the enemy is.
Our soldiers and leaders are being indicted and interrogated over doing what they think is right. They are saving our asses. They are the ones putting their lives on the line for us and this is the thanks we give them. The US is becoming a nation of pussies and that is why Obama was elected. For fucks sake, after 9/11, EVERYONE said lets go get those bastards and no one cared what happened them. People loved that one country singers song because he said about kicking their ass because that is the American way. Obviously, it is not anymore. Lets make sure we are going after the right people. Our military is not doing the harm; the enemy is.
This is getting more and more hysterical. You've been reduced to a sputtering rage, simultaneously accusing me of being a Fox drone while saying I have no knowledge of history. Did you forget to call me a redneck and accuse me of inbreeding? Might as well get your stereotype right if you're gonna do it.
You're really going off the deep end here - essentially arguing that if we allow veteran interrogators the latitude to use mild psychological tactics if they deem it absolutely necessary, we stand the danger(cue dark music here) of 'morphing' into Nazi Germany. And not only that, but its akin to chopping penises off slowly too!
Hyperventilate much?
Since you're enjoying milking this Nazi comparison to death, Hitler almost didn't even make it to power. He had to stage an event(Reichstag) in order to rise to power. His rise also could never have happened without the egregious reparations demanded by France through the Versailles Treaty, which cultivated a lot of resentment with the German people, making them ripe for the words of a demagogue.
I find it utterly sad and pathetic that you have to make this comparison in order to make your point. Nobody's chopping penises off. When we're actually having that debate, maybe people will consider your words to have some form of sanity. Until then, why don't you switch to decaf and chill out a little.
Not that Brar is innocent of this himself, but WTF is it with Republicans and ad hominem attacks? Everyone's got some sort of dirt on them, and no one stands higher than anyone else. So by republican standards, no one (themselves included) are to be listened to.
That's why I'm apolitical. I can't stand listening to two sides posture and make claims of superiority, working to undermine the platform their opponent stands on instead of debating whatever the issue at hand is.
Ok. So experience in India doesn't cut it for you. Got it. How about our founding fathers?
Thomas Paine said:
Nearly any constitution era document you can find that's related to crime/punishment, human rights, etc says to always err on the side of caution with this stuff.James Wilson said:
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