Exactly! Why would we change the entire health care system when 85% of the population is fine the way it is?
Focus on fixing the 15% that don't have it.
Health Care
- Thread starter xentech
- Start date
Exactly! Why would we change the entire health care system when 85% of the population is fine the way it is?
Focus on fixing the 15% that don't have it.
Do people without insurance appeal to insurers? That part is about having a panel of health experts to decide what the government plan would cover and such. I assume they also have a panel that decides how much in food stamps people on that particular program get.
How would any insurance plan in 2009 not have some type of id card? There are already food stamp cards, medicare cards and driver's licenses.
False - that's only if an employee wants to be part of the government plan.
"(2) OPT-OUT.—In no case may an employer automatically enroll an employee in a plan under paragraph (1) if such employee makes an affirmative election to opt out of such plan or to elect coverage under an employment-based health benefits plan offered by such employer."
:error:
FACT CHECK: No 'death panel' in health care bill - Yahoo! News
snopes.com: Euthanasia Counseling
Here is some interesting data btw:
According to the Census Bureau, of the 46 million Americans who are uninsured:
According to the Census Bureau, of the 46 million Americans who are uninsured:
- 10.1 million are individuals who have income of $66,000 for a family of four, but who elect to remain uninsured.
- 9.3 million are non-citizens who generally do not pay tax.
- 6.4 million who are enrolled in Medicaid or S-CHIP but reported to the Census taker that they were not. (This phenomenon is known among statisticians as the Medicaid undercount.)
- 4.3 million are eligible for Medicaid or S-CHIP but have not enrolled.
- 5 million are childless adults, mainly healthy, young adults who simply do not wish to pay for insurance.
If we are talking about no Gov run healthcare then what about medicaid period?
let the old die in the streets!!
let the old die in the streets!!
Demographically, the elderly are the richest segment of the population, and arguably the group that needs the least financial assistance. I got that from a friend who does that sort of stat work for a living.
In fact, as marketers, we should all be gearing up for selling stuff to old people.
True that, but the majority of them don't know how to use computers, and refuse to learn. I went around the floor at Affiliate Summit expressing this point, and pushed the virtues of offline advertising. There was a lot of agreement, but no plans for action.
Um... I think you mean Medicare, which is government-run health insurance for those 65+. In contrast, millions of the uninsured are children. Applying your logic, we can let the kiddies die in the streets.thunderlips said:
The point you're missing in all of this is no matter what the bill says about allowing private health entities to compete, they really won't be able to compete against the government plan because the government can run them out of business while burning through our tax money.
The whole "If you like your current plan you can keep it" Obama keeps regurgitating on his propaganda tour is probably the biggest lie he has told yet. We know full well his goal of a single payer system will soon become a reality if he can con us all into believing he will support fair competition in the marketplace.
Once again, these are all Obama lies because this is not about health care.
It's about control. A statist who wants total control over every aspect of your life.
i love the fact that two very important points are left out of this thread.
1. the vast majority of people in a hospital are there b/c they choose to be (self inflicted disease)
2. the u.s does not refuse anyone at the emergency room
1. the vast majority of people in a hospital are there b/c they choose to be (self inflicted disease)
2. the u.s does not refuse anyone at the emergency room
So the private insurance companies won't be able to compete with a public entity that would delivery more services at a lower cost (which is probably why they're fighting it). If the private companies are so cutting edge let's give them a chance to show their competitive chops. Or is real competition such a horrible thing?
Fine, let's protect them from competition and disallow it. They have a right to survive, too, even if we have to sell blood to pay them.
That's not what was said at all.
They won't be able to compete because they lack the ability to tax, which the US government can. The government can be as wasteful as they like, spending at a deficit and just taxing the difference(or just adding it to the national deficit).
You can't call it competition when paying for the government program is mandatory.
Good try though.
I can't stomach the thought that my own tax dollars would be going to fund a sham/fabricated price war for the sole purpose of shutting down competition.
WTF has this country come to? Freedom my ass.
WTF has this country come to? Freedom my ass.
You already pay mandatory taxes for other people's health care: Medicaid, Medicare and health care services made available to veterans via the VA (which is an exceptionally well run government service, btw). A public option would simply be another choice that people could have to deliver their health care. People choosing the public plan would have to pay premiums like any other insurance.
I don't see why would nixing the public option, and extending protectionism toward private companies, is desirable. If a public plan is expected to be so lame and wasteful, why are private insurance companies afraid of it?
You're totally missing the point here.
To summarize:
-Obama (a statist) wants total control and will use health care as one of his methods.
-He makes it sound all rosy and good saying we can keep our insurance, we want healthy competition, etc, etc.
-He passes this POS and instantly tries to stifle competition by using our tax dollars to subsidize his little empire building soon crushing all of the private insurance companies.
-Now we have no options and Obama gets his control.
-I've said this 3 times now, Obama is a liar and this is not about getting quality health care to the people. The simplest proof of that is the constant shooting down of any other alternate ideas no matter how great or money saving they sound.
I know what you said: You argue from the perspective that he's pushing this because he's a POS liar trying to wrest control. I was arguing the plan based on its merits, assuming that he wants to reform the system because it needs to be done, we have a crisis and that there is no nefarious conspiracy afoot.
So we're you're not really arguing the virtues or liabilities of the plan itself; rather the supposed motives of the president to fashion a sort of putsch from your tonsillectomy and podiatry bux. Makes sense. I guess. :repuke:
There really are no merits to this plan. Even if Obama was the philanthropic savior of the world that you believe him to be, the plan still sucks because it doesn't address the few who actually have problems being served by the current methods (see baby/bathwater quote above).
You're really starting to sound like an Obama drone now.
There is no crisis. Problems, yes, but crisis, no. He wants the sheeple to think there is a crisis so you won't question what he's cramming down your throats.
Check out Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals and you will start to see (and predict) the exact pattern of behavior Obama will demonstrate when he wants to get something done that might otherwise be a little too socialistic for the average American to stomach. It's his whole playbook.