Torture Doesn't Work - Now Get The Fuck Out.

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You're confusing the aggressor for the victim in this euphemism.
Getting drunk and accidentally killing someone is the same choice as getting into a plane and flying it into a building.
Going to a pub and getting glassed in a fight is the same outcome as going to work and having a plane ride into your building.

You're letting emotion and preconceived points of view get in the way of understanding other people's lines of reason.

You know, after looking at the statement I made and reading yours, I realize my analogy is off like you said. However, our military is here to protect us. That is their jobs. So when a citizen gets killed, I feel as though the military may take it personal.

However, I still feel as though the countries that have no common respect or courtesy for human life should not have it better then prisoners in our own US prisoners. What goes on in a US prison at times is heinous. The fact that we care more about the rights of known and admitted terrorists over our own citizens is pathetic. And I still have no remorse or care about terrorists to be honest. They give up their rights when they make that choice.
 


I agree that getting older and having a family changes your ideas about some things, it may even a person more conservative. It does not have to a make a person a fear-mongering self absorbed idiot, though. Which is my general impression of the conservative right.

Thats why I said "most" not all. If Republicans are the kings of fear mongering then they just lost their crown to BO.

BO has slung more fear in 3 months then GB did in 8 years. Let's just agree that both parties ATM are fucked and something needs to be done.

For me a new leader of the Republican party cut in the same mold as Reagen, needs to apear. If that can't happen then we need a viable third party candidate and kick both parties out of the white house.
 
And I still have no remorse or care about terrorists to be honest. They give up their rights when they make that choice.

who is a terrorist?
do you know?

have you been paying attention to the legislation that's been passed these past few years?
on any whim, for any reason, you too can be declared a terrorist.

if you speak your mind at a political rally, you could be a terrorist.
if something you do upsets corporate profit, you could be a terrorist.
if you own a ron paul bumper sticker, you could be a terrorist.
if you're in PETA, you could be a terrorist.

with all the ambiguously worded nonsense that's been made law recently, most anything you say or do could be interpreted as terrorist activity.

you can be held against your will, indefinitely.
you can be denied your right to a lawyer.
you can be tortured.

all because someone made a decision to associate your name with terrorism.

it may be justified. you might have a bomb stuck up your ass, and are stupid enough to think that violent attacks on infrastructure or the public work. it may be a mistake, due to nothing more than a typo. or you may be a nuisance, and someone arbitrarily decides you are a terrorist for not supporting their ideas.

all of these things have happened before.
do you trust them not to happen again?


1: Terrorists maim and / or torture people, using a range of bot physical and /or psychological tactics in order to obtain information from them, and inspire fear and / or terror into them and their remaining civilian populations. Ergo maiming and / or torturing people, using physical and / or psychological, tactics to obtain information and inspire fear and / or terror is an act of terror.

Explain how terrorism can be fought with terrorism, without resorting to arguments based on the precept, or perceptions of, moral equivalency.


2: You are statistically more likely to be struck by, and severely injured and / or killed, by lightning than by an act of terrorism.

Explain what precautions and measures you are insisting your government take to protect you from lightning strikes, what liberties you are willing to forgo to ensure you are not struck by lightning, and what amount of government funding should be set aside to protect people from lightning.

whatever you think your beliefs on torture and terrorism are, I'd challenge ya'll to re-read then try and answer these questions yourself.

unless you're making money or consolidating power from torture or terror, I'm pretty sure there are no good reasons to support these things.
but I may be wrong, and if so I'll go ahead and be waterboarded for charity.

waterboardingcharity2.jpg


up to 9 times a day. every day. without a lawyer.
not just once as a bullshit media stunt -- but what we're really doing to 'enemy combatants', whoever they might be. you?

anyone? bueller?
 
if you speak your mind at a political rally, you could be a terrorist.
if something you do upsets corporate profit, you could be a terrorist.
if you own a ron paul bumper sticker, you could be a terrorist.
if you're in PETA, you could be a terrorist.

I'd lay off the weed if I were you. That is, unless you enjoy the "ZOMG they're coming for me!" paranoia you're currently exhibiting.
 
and to clarify, I'm not trying to come off as a dick. or high. even though I may or may not be both. both presently and in past posting events.

but it's no paranoid delusion that authoritatives are authorizing authority far beyond the authority authorized for them, by us, when we weren't under duress of terrorism threats and disease and all this other insignificant, irrelevant, irresponsible bullshit that qualifies as newsworthy events. the writing's on the wall and all, and anyone with eyes to see knows what time it is.

so. gonna bow out. I've spoken my peace and a half.
hope ya'll enjoyed it. or enjoyed refuting it.
the enjoyment is what matters most.
 
its hilarious that some conservatives (supposedly proponents of small / limited government) want to give the government the ultimate trust and authority to be allowed to torture (regardless of the actual effectiveness argument).

Does anyone else realize just how completely fucking ridiculous that is?
 
I'd lay off the weed if I were you. That is, unless you enjoy the "ZOMG they're coming for me!" paranoia you're currently exhibiting.

can you fucking debate with someone without attacking them? His points are completely valid and you haven't managed to refute shit, you've just proven yourself incapable of reasonable discourse.
 
if anyone wants to watch a controlled waterboarding

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITJSVQjd9BE"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
 
so. gonna bow out. I've spoken my peace and a half.
hope ya'll enjoyed it. or enjoyed refuting it.
the enjoyment is what matters most.
Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.

-H.L. Mencken
 
Good quote.

I'm not going to dig the boots in on this one, guerilla, I'm genuinely interested.
Which of the current boogiemen do you think are genuine, and which do you think are made up?

i.e.

REAL:
Osama bin Laden
Obama bin Barack

FAKE:
Global Warming
Puppies
2012

(pure example... not my actual beliefs... everyone knows 2012 is real)
 
Harvey, give me a list to respond to. It's a bit much to ask my opinion on "everything current". A lot of them are obfuscations which while not fake in that they may occur, are faked with regards to their consequences. Examples, peak oil and deflation.

Mencken was a pimp. You were wise not to dig in against him, one of the greatest journalists of the 20th century.
 
I have been exposed to enchanced interogation techniques and so have thousands of other Amercian military members. Sure it sucked but it was mostly a mind game. It sure wasn't the "tourture" that MSNBC and code pink make it out to be.

Yes, I'm sure you were locked up and tortured for 5+ years and died as a result of the torture you received... we believe you.


These people against enchanced interogation techniques are no different than everyone else. You can take the most militant flaming liberal and have a terrorist saw their mother's head off with a butter knife and they will all of a sudden be in favor of waterboarding. That is what makes their arguments so lame.

I don't flame jar heads. They are part of the structure of society. Society is based on rules and principals. With checks and balances. It was designed in such a way for a reason, one which you are obviously oblivious to.

As an individual I would do horrible things to a person who did something so horrible to my loved ones. But that is as an individual. I would also have to pay for what I did, if a jury of my peers finds me guilty of going overboard.

But I don't trust government. Power corrupts. I don't trust power. That is why I believe the ones in power should act according to established rules and principals, so they have checks and balances to deal with.

I trust government to take a man's life, only after having found him guilty in a court of law (remember, innocent until proven guilty thing, I'm sure you enjoy that). Even then, government should do it as painlessly as possible.

Torturing a person without conviction is against everything the US was founded on. There were terrorists back then (in the eyes of Britain every American was a terrorist at one point in history)... not that much has changed (in opposition to what your type would like to believe). If you really feel government should torture people, why don't you go to a country that was founded on such principals? There are plenty for you to choose from... just be careful what you say; you don't want to start missing the whole innocent untill proven guilty.
 
Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.

-H.L. Mencken

Remember, it doesn't have to be imaginary. I remember a quote I read, don't remember from whom... but it said:

Every Great lie has a little truth to it.
 
Remember, it doesn't have to be imaginary. I remember a quote I read, don't remember from whom... but it said:

Every Great lie has a little truth to it.
Right, like I wrote to Howie, there are lots of chimeras and hobgoblins that are misrepresented, like the moronic fear of CO2 (exhale much?), peak oil (we will make alternatives, as we always have), or deflation (omgz, my savings are increasing in purchasing power, chaos!)
 
Everyone acts like waterboarding and the like was just instituted under GB. Wake up and realize that we have used "enchanced interogation" techniques since the dawn of our country. If anything we have "lightened" up on our techniques. Nothing new here.

This whole thing is a new bumper sticker for the kids and the hippies. The kids get extra credit for making posters about tourture and shit and the hippies get to sit around smoking weed chanting some bullshit phrase concerning waterboarding.
 
Yes, I'm sure you were locked up and tortured for 5+ years and died as a result of the torture you received... we believe you.

bloody civilians :/

he was talking about SERE training... something you obviously have no knowledge of, yet you feel the need to make douchebag comments about...
 
Everyone acts like waterboarding and the like was just instituted under GB. Wake up and realize that we have used "enchanced interogation" techniques since the dawn of our country. If anything we have "lightened" up on our techniques. Nothing new here.

This whole thing is a new bumper sticker for the kids and the hippies. The kids get extra credit for making posters about tourture and shit and the hippies get to sit around smoking weed chanting some bullshit phrase concerning waterboarding.

Sorry, that doesn't make it right, or effective. It is neither, regardless of past use. Thats like saying sniffing coke is bad cause at least you're not smoking crack anymore.

If you wanna talk about kids with signs, you should take a look at some of those 8 yr old kids holding up signs at those "tea parties". Seriously, i don't think republicans will cease being the laughing stock of the nation for quite some time.
 
Sorry, that doesn't make it right, or effective. It is neither, regardless of past use. Thats like saying sniffing coke is bad cause at least you're not smoking crack anymore.

If you wanna talk about kids with signs, you should take a look at some of those 8 yr old kids holding up signs at those "tea parties". Seriously, i don't think republicans will cease being the laughing stock of the nation for quite some time.

Evidently you didn't notice all the kids over the last year chanting, singing and being generally creepy over Obama on Youtube. Any parent from either side that sticks a sign in a kids hand or has them perform a campaign song etc. is a damn idiot.
 
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